The Dr. Lorna Breen Heroes’ Foundation

Kiera Helms: [00:00:00] All right. Welcome to the DocBuddy journal. I am Kiera Helms. Eric is taking a short break from the mic today, but no worries. He’ll be back next episode. We are bringing you a really important episode today as part of the worldwide podcast line. And we are proud to dedicate this episode to the Dr. Lorna Breen Heroes’ Foundation. This organization is doing really incredible work. About mental health and health care, and their vision is super powerful about making sure that when health care workers are reaching out for mental health support, it’s seen as what it truly is a sign of strength. I’m thrilled to welcome our guest.

Kiera Helms: Dr. Stefanie Simmons, who serves as the foundation’s chief medical officer. Dr. Simmons brings such a valuable perspective as a board certified emergency medicine physician herself, and I should mention that if you’re in Houston this March, you can catch her speaking at the ACHE. ACHE. 2025 Congress on Healthcare Leadership.

Kiera Helms: Dr. Simmons, thank you so much for being here. I know we have [00:01:00] a lot to cover on the Foundation’s work and your insights into healthcare worker well being.

Dr. Simmons: Thanks, Kiera. I’m looking forward to the conversation.

Kiera Helms: Absolutely. Can you, um, share a little bit about how Dr. Brain’s legacy has shaped the Foundation’s mission and its approach to supporting its healthcare workers?

Dr. Simmons: Dr. Lorna Breen was an emergency medicine physician practicing as a medical director in emergency medicine at New York Presbyterian Hospital in Manhattan. Uh, actually in the Bronx and, uh, like many healthcare workers, she was called, uh, back to her site. Um, she was actually on vacation with her family and went back to New York, Presbyterian to care for patients in the first wave of the COVID pandemic, like many healthcare workers and many sites, their, their hospital was overwhelmed, uh, that she, she was working long hours, both to take care of patients, but also to [00:02:00] protect her coworkers. And she, she, uh, contracted COVID herself again, like many health care workers, she got really sick with it early days, no vaccine, um, for strain and, um, and she went back to work again, like many health care workers, 24 hours after her fever was gone, back into the fray to care for patients and her colleagues.

Dr. Simmons: And she became exhausted physically, mentally, emotionally, and ultimately was unable to. To get out of her, her chair, her family and her colleagues evacuated her by car to Virginia, where her family lives. And she was hospitalized. She was hospitalized for mental health in the first ever mental health treatment of her life.

Dr. Simmons: And soon after, when she was discharged, she expressed to her family how worried she was that she wouldn’t be able to practice medicine. She’d lose her credentialing at her hospital and the respect of her colleagues. And it was soon after that, that that Lauren had died by suicide. [00:03:00] Within a day of her death, the New York Times published an article on her death and its cause against her family’s wishes.

Dr. Simmons: She was a public figure in New York. And, you know, obviously that was traumatic to her family. But what happened next was was really remarkable. And what happened was that first dozens and then hundreds and ultimately thousands of health care workers reached out to Lorna’s family to say she’s not alone.

Dr. Simmons: Burnout and mental health conditions are are common in health care workers. And there are real barriers for us receiving care and that this didn’t start with the pandemic. It existed before the pandemic and it’s a crisis. And so the foundation was born out of Lorna’s family’s desire to honor her her legacy.

Dr. Simmons: Yes, but really to respond to the outpouring of messages from the health care [00:04:00] workforce. And you’ll see that reflected in in the mission and the vision, right? Yes. Addressing. The barriers to mental health care, helping to craft a world where mental health care is seen as a sign of, of, of strength, but also to address those operational environmental issues that predispose health care workers to burnout.

Dr. Simmons: So there’s also the systems component to the work.

Kiera Helms: Absolutely. Wow. What an incredible story. I, yeah, that is just an amazing story and a foundation for an incredible foundation and its mission. Um, the foundation has taken several significant initiatives recently. Could you highlight some of the most impactful projects that you guys have been focusing on lately?

Dr. Simmons: Sure. So, so we work in three main areas. We work in advocacy, we advance collaboration and we accelerate solutions. And so I’ll give you an example of each of those in advocacy. You know, [00:05:00] we helped advocate for and get past the first ever federal legislation supporting the mental health needs of the health care workforce.

Dr. Simmons: And that was named the Dr. Lorna Breen Health Care Provider Protection Act. It included federal funding for projects and programs supporting the mental health of health care workers, a suicide prevention guide for health care workers through the American Hospital Association, and the Impact Wellbeing Guide, which was jointly created through NIOSH and the Dr.

Dr. Simmons: Lorna Breen Heroes Foundation. We’re currently working on reauthorizing that law, and we’ll be reintroducing that bill in 2025. In, uh, advancing collaboration, we’ve brought together a group of organizations nationally that address healthcare workforce well being, you know, our founder, Corey Feist, co founder [00:06:00] for Corey Feist likes to say that there are more silos in healthcare than in Iowa.

Dr. Simmons: And it’s true, right? So a lot of times we’re doing our own work in our own organizations, even in inside a hospital, our own departments, you know, our own units. And, uh, there’s not, there wasn’t a great place for organizations across the country to come together and really speak about and collaborate on health care workforce well being.

Dr. Simmons: So, we formed the all in, uh, well being first for health care, uh, network and it includes the AHA, the AMA, the ANA, we call those the A team, right? Um, but other key organizations from across the country. Representing, uh, um, APPs, nurses, uh, different nurse, uh, subgroups, IHI, the Institute for Healthcare Improvement, uh, Schwartz Center for Compassionate Care, um, as well as interested, uh, philanthropic organizations.

Dr. Simmons: So, we’re advancing collaborations. We bring that group together. [00:07:00] We have a convening every year on March 18th, which is National Healthcare Workforce Wellbeing Day. Um, and, uh, and they really serve as a steering committee to our work. We also have a medical student coalition. They self organized and said, we want to get involved to how can we, how can we be of service put us in?

Dr. Simmons: Uh, and, and so we have medical students from across the country also doing this work. When we talk about accelerating solutions, we have two key programs. One is the licensing and credentialing all in well being first champions challenge. So there are questions on state licensing applications for medical professionals that are licensed doctors, nurses, pharmacists, dentists, um, and hospital credentialing applications will sometimes include questions about a past history.

Dr. Simmons: diagnosis or treatment of mental health. These questions don’t predict future [00:08:00] performance and don’t ask about current impairment. And so they stigmatize previous care without protecting patients by asking about current impairment. So we’ve really advocated, uh, for state licensing agencies and for hospital credentialing.

Dr. Simmons: Um, and other type of settings, credentialing applications that they eliminate these questions. We have created a technical assistance program to help them do that, and we have a badge that awards them for doing that. And then also, the last thing in Accelerating Solutions is our All In Caring for Caregivers program.

Dr. Simmons: That’s at the state or health systems level, uh, where we work with organizations. And we bring them through the licensing and credentialing process, provide leader education, strategic planning, and then bring together groups of organizations and learning collaboratives to help them make change. So, we currently have four states mid process there.

Kiera Helms: Wow. That is incredible. [00:09:00] Yeah. The all in caring for caregivers has been one of the things that caught my eye the most. That is an incredible program that I’m excited to see spread throughout, you know, all, all health care organizations, um, for that program or any of the other programs, what metrics have been helpful in measuring the impact or how are you, how are you measuring that impact for providers?

Dr. Simmons: That’s a great question. So, in licensing and credentialing, it’s pretty straightforward. It’s, is your hospital, health system, surgical center, state, consistent with best practices? And in these questions for licensing and credentialing. Or not. And then we’re looking at the pace of change across the country.

Dr. Simmons: So, um, at the very beginning of this work in 2019, we knew there were 17 states that were consistent with best practices in medical licensing. Now we know that there are [00:10:00] 29 and several other states in progress. And so our goal is to have all 50 states, Puerto Rico, Washington, D. C. changed, confirmed by the end of 2026.

Kiera Helms: Wow.

Dr. Simmons: We’re also working with nursing, pharmacy and dentistry boards to recognize those boards that change in same thing with hospitals. So, at the beginning of this work, we said, um, if your hospital has consistent. credentialing application, peer reference forms, let us know, we’ll award you the badge. And in the last year of doing that, we’ve been able to award badges to 400, over 400 hospitals, um, and, and recognize them for that great work.

Dr. Simmons: So, uh, we’re seeing, you know, consistent increase in both the number, but also the pace of change of this work, which has been really rewarding. In the statewide coalition, we also are measuring the knowledge and attitudes of health care leaders about professional well being. And we are, [00:11:00] we’re measuring and tracking the outcomes of individual hospital level projects that impact the environment of care.

Dr. Simmons: So we are doing some really concrete monitoring of the impact of our programs.

Kiera Helms: Wow, that is amazing. With those programs, what do you think are the most, or which initiatives do you think have shown the best, or the most, um, promise in impacting those outcomes?

Dr. Simmons: You know, the number one driver of burnout in the health care workforce is administrative burden and when an organization is able to deploy clear two way listening. So they’re hearing from the health care workforce about what are the problems in practice? What are the things that make my job harder?

Dr. Simmons: They intervene on those. Issues and then they let the health care workforce know what what’s been done on their behalf. That’s very powerful. If you add in human [00:12:00] factors engineering into that, then all of a sudden, you’re not only addressing problems as they come up, but preventing them from coming up.

Dr. Simmons: That’s really important component. of an effective intervention. We also know that the EHR is a huge source of administrative burden and there are real things that can be done with the EHR to make it a more friendly intervention, a more friendly workplace factor for health care workers. And one thing that can be done is generative AI.

Dr. Simmons: to help people with their inbox messages to help, um, start the response process. We know that ambient listening technology can decrease cognitive load and improve a clinician’s time and chart. And, um, and then just looking, having hospitals really dedicate time and effort, looking towards their EHR, uh, uh, regulations, seeing what is Uh, based in actual current compliance needs and then, and what’s sort of become a [00:13:00] myth.

Dr. Simmons: We have to do it this way because of compliance, right? Uh, but hasn’t actually been looked at, uh, to see if, if that’s still true. So kind of weeding that overgrown garden of administrative burden and regulatory burden for clinician. I mean, so those are, those are two important systems approaches. On the individual support side of things, coaching and peer support, um, have the best evidence in terms of really providing individual support by trained peers who know the environment and are able to, to help an individual with what they’re going through.

Kiera Helms: Right. Absolutely. That makes total sense. Thank you for sharing that. Those all of those initiatives are absolutely incredible. I imagine also that your experience as a physician gives you a really unique perspective into these initiatives and the positive or negative impact they might have. Can you talk a little bit about how your [00:14:00] experience has kind of impacted those missions?

Dr. Simmons: Sure. Um, so I worked 15 years. I, I worked in a variety of practices, including an academic practice, uh, you know, with residents. Uh, rural practice, urban practice, um, and, and really had an opportunity to understand a variety of settings and the, the type of challenges that people face in those settings. I will also say the emergency department is a bit of a crucible, uh, for the issues of healthcare worker well being, uh, emergency physicians have the highest rates of healthcare worker burnout, um, that we see.

Dr. Simmons: And there are some real reasons for that. So a lot of the drivers of burnout sort of are seen specifically in the emergency department. We also touch all the different parts of the hospital and have a chance to talk to health care workers from from all the [00:15:00] different parts of the hospital and also from the outpatient and surgical settings, right?

Dr. Simmons: Because we’re constantly referring, bringing people in from those settings and talking to our colleagues. So in my early career was really crafted and shaped by those experiences. Um, and then I, I, because of the need right in the emergency department, I asked the medical group I was working for at the time, uh, to, to let me develop a career in addressing the patient and clinician engagement with our group.

Dr. Simmons: And so, uh, over the course of now, 20 years, I’ve really developed. Um, that role and that expertise first as the medical director of patient and clinician experience for a moderate size group and ultimately the vice president for patient and clinician engagement for 26, 000 clinicians, um, staffing over 900 hospitals in 34 states.

Dr. Simmons: So, and that gave me some great insight into what this looks like [00:16:00] in different parts of the country. And that’s what I was doing when the foundation started, uh, and I, I raised my hand and said, put me in, uh, I want to be of service in any way I can to this group.

Kiera Helms: That’s amazing. What a amazing progression from doing that on your own and then joining this amazing foundation. I’m curious how, how does the foundation approach the broader systemic changes? Like what principles are guiding the foundation’s approach when creating sustainable change and supporting those health care workers,

Dr. Simmons: Well, our key guiding principle you can see in the name of our collaborative network, which is all in being first for healthcare. So when we, when we talk about all in, we mean it. Um, and, and. We are happy to and willing to enthusiastically engage with anyone who wants to come to the table to have this conversation who [00:17:00] authentically wants to improve.

Dr. Simmons: The mental health and the workplace environment for the health care workforce. And you’ll see that in our coalition, right? So we work with the hospitals. We work with the doctors. We work with the nurses worth the pharmacist. We’ve worked with insurance companies. We’ve worked with state governments with federal governments.

Dr. Simmons: And, you know, we, there are lots of different parts of the health care organization, health care. Infrastructure and ecosystem that have a stake in health care worker well being so anyone who wants to join this fight, we will work alongside and that’s reflected in the online platform. We’ve developed for this work as we call it symphony because just like in a symphony orchestra, you need the strings and the wind and the percussion, you know, all playing together to make this work.

Dr. Simmons: That’s what you need in health care to find some of these solutions and really implement them successfully. The other [00:18:00] thing is, you know, first, so you’ve got all in and then well being first for health care. So, uh, many health care workers. Can give to others what they don’t have themselves, is well being right.

Dr. Simmons: And so we’re saying in order for human beings to have longevity in this career, to have joy in this career, they need their own well being addressed as well. And so, yes, the patient. Is the ultimate beneficiary of a healthy health care workforce, but it is enough to look after the workforce themselves.

Dr. Simmons: And that is its own end as well.

Kiera Helms: right? Absolutely. That makes complete sense for the stakeholders that are involved in these conversations. Who are the ones That are really driving these conversations at that organizational [00:19:00] level.

Dr. Simmons: You know, it’s interesting. It really does vary by organization. So, you know, because we do a lot of work in advocacy at the state and federal level, sometimes it’s the government affairs leads for those organizations that are engaged with us really representing their organizations. support, uh, of the healthcare workforce.

Dr. Simmons: Other times it may be someone who is specifically focused on workforce, might be the CEO or president of the organization. Um, and so it depends a little bit on the, the structure of the organization, but there is something that’s universal, uh, between everybody that we, we work about, uh, we work with, and that is the.

Dr. Simmons: Understand and care about the issue. Once you have interacted with health care workers, understood this issue, heard their stories, and then you understand the impact [00:20:00] that health care worker well being has on patients, on that individual health care worker, and their family, and their community. It is impossible not to care about this issue.

Dr. Simmons: And so, you know, the one thing that everyone from each organization has in common who does this work is. is, is that they care.

Kiera Helms: Absolutely. For, for those organizations that are wanting to, to start making a change or start to get involved. What does that process normally look like at maybe at a clinic level or a hospital level? How do they, I mean, this is such a big thing to tackle. How, how can they do that in kind of manageable steps?

Dr. Simmons: I love that. The analogy I use is that if you wake up on a Thursday morning and you want to address health care worker well being right, it could feel like you have to fix the U. S. Health system, which is like kind of a [00:21:00] tall order. So that’s like, that’s the elephant, right? And you’ve got to eat this elephant.

Dr. Simmons: So how are you going to start? Right? Well, you start with a bite. And so we actually helped the CDC develop a guide called the Impact Wellbeing Leaders Guide. Okay. That is for leaders of health care organizations, and it says, here’s your first six steps. Your first six bites of the elephant to help get started on this.

Dr. Simmons: And by the way, here are some people you want to invite along with you to hand them a fork to help you with this task. And so the Impact Wellbeing Guide is a great place for people to start who are saying, how should we do this work? Um, at the Dr. Lerner Brain Heroes Foundation, uh, we also have leadership strategic planning sessions, uh, that we run with hospitals and health systems.

Dr. Simmons: And then if, as a state, a state is interested in getting involved, we have the All In Caring for [00:22:00] Caregivers program. Uh, we work within the state with a coalition. Of members that includes the Medical Society, Hospital Association, Nursing Association of the state, and then they work together and then we go through the process of licensing and credentialing reform, leadership, education, and then also learning collaboratives to improve the workplace

Kiera Helms: right. So it’s tailored to each kind of section as you’re as you’re going and tackling these issues. That’s amazing.

Dr. Simmons: because, you know, um, Anna Karenina, there’s, there’s a book called Anna Karenina, right? And the first line of the book is all happy families are happy in the same way. Okay. All unhappy families have their own stories, and the same is true in health care. If, if things are going well, the same things are happening, right, everywhere.

Dr. Simmons: When things aren’t going well, it’s a little different, depending [00:23:00] on who and where and what. And, you know, sometimes we’re going in and we’re helping organizations where things are going well, and we’re helping them go better. But a lot of times in any health care setting, there are things that need to to improve.

Dr. Simmons: There’s opportunities. And so part of how we can help is to really understand where those opportunities are and to provide resources and context for the leaders of the organization.

Kiera Helms: Absolutely. And when identifying those opportunities for where you can help, what do you think are the primary challenges that healthcare workers are facing when they’re trying to prioritize mental health or, or address those issues? And you know, what solutions are showing the most promise?

Dr. Simmons: So there are, um, you know, we think about these in two ways. One is mental health care, and then the other way is burnout. And those two things are related, but they’re not the same. [00:24:00] So on the mental health care side, we think of removing barriers to accessing mental health care that are unique to health care workers.

Dr. Simmons: And that’s looking at state licensing and looking at credentialing in your organization and removing the stigmatizing and invasive language around past diagnosis treatment. Um, people can also, organizations can also screen for suicide and then back up that screening with confidential. On the burnout side, you know, I’m an ER doc, so I always think of burnout as like a bleeding patient in front of me. There’s someone who’s wounded. And the first thing you do when somebody’s bleeding in front of you is you hold pressure on that wound.

Dr. Simmons: So that’s individual support. Okay. One is hurting and they need help. That’s where coaching and peer support come in. If all you do is hold pressure, [00:25:00] you haven’t addressed the source of the bleeding. And your patient won’t do great. Right? So, in addition to holding pressure, providing support, you need to find the source of the bleeding and address those systematic issues like EHR optimization, like reducing administrative burden, like looking at ideal scheduling standards and getting people, uh, you know, the right ratios of work to resources. And so that’s the approach is, you know. Look at mental health care, but also look at burnout and be very Specific about how you approach that.

Kiera Helms: makes a lot of sense. Yeah. And for those, sorry, I just, um, for those, those challenges that their providers are having, is there, what is, I mean, a lot of, in my experience when I’ve been around physicians, you know, a lot of them [00:26:00] aren’t wanting to talk about these challenges and they are, you know.

Kiera Helms: Surgeons and specifically working with surgeons. They’re, they’re really hesitant to discuss mental health issues. How, how is your organization or like what tactics have you used to help kind of break that, that stigma? And I know we’ve talked about, you know, the, the penalties that are associated with it.

Kiera Helms: But what about just the, you know, just like the personal aspect of like trying to talk to a physician that doesn’t want to talk about mental health?

Dr. Simmons: Um, so stigma comes in in three flavors, right? It comes from internally, externally and institutionally. And we’ve been largely talking about institutional stigma, the policies, the procedures, the licensing, the credentialing, those things that stigmatize mental health care and, and frankly, punish it. In addition, though, to that institutional stigma, there’s the internal stigma of what does it mean to myself if I need care, if I need help as a caregiver, right?[00:27:00]

Dr. Simmons: And, and I’ll tell you, there’s the, the attitudes that you’re describing exist in emergency medicine, too. They exist throughout medicine because, you know, how I would put it for emergency is you’re the one who’s there who can handle anything that comes at you. That’s almost the job description, right?

Dr. Simmons: Anything that walks in the door, you can at least stabilize and get the right people on board to help. So what does that mean about me if I can’t do that for my own needs? Okay, so that’s the internal stigma. And the external stigma is what are other people going to think about me

Kiera Helms: Right,

Dr. Simmons: if I need help? Am I still going to be seen as a leader, as competent, as You know, as a, um, as a surgeon, as an emergency medicine physician, and part of that is how we talk about our patients with mental health conditions, how we talk about people who need a break [00:28:00] and really getting away from this.

Dr. Simmons: sort of pejorative way of talking about people when they get help. So we can be really careful about our own language, first of all. We can share, when appropriate, in the correct setting, in the correct audience, our own history with mental health conditions. And, you know, someone who did that really beautifully recently was, uh, Dr.

Dr. Simmons: Carrie Cunningham. And, and, you know, she did this from an, you know, position of strength as an endocrine surgeon and, um, president of academic surgeons. And she shared during her presence address about her substance use disorder and her mental health history and how she has addressed that. And, you know, there’s not a person alive who would look at Dr.

Dr. Simmons: Cunningham and say, Oh, well, she’s not a great surgeon or she’s not a great leader. [00:29:00] Um, when in fact, she’s both. So, you know, it’s, it’s important for people to share their stories. She gave the profession of medicine a great gift when she did that. And, um, as people share their stories, we start to break down that stigma and really, um, open up space for people to have those conversations.

Dr. Simmons: Most of those conversations are going to happen between health care workers when there is trust and vulnerability. And that’s why peer support and peer coaching is so popular and, uh, and effective.

Kiera Helms: right. Absolutely. That makes a lot of sense. Something you said earlier where they stuck with me about, you know, destigmatizing or avoiding the language that we’re using when we’re talking about, you know, patients with mental health issues. I think that’s a huge thing that is often overlooked. I know, particularly when I was working in the actual clinic setting.

Kiera Helms: You know, we’re doing MIPS and one of those MIPS that [00:30:00] we’re watching is, um, like a depression screening or an anxiety screening. And a lot of healthcare workers are saying, you know, it’s not applicable to my field because, you know, I don’t do mental health. And a lot of that language can be really negative.

Kiera Helms: And I think that is a really great, a great point that, you know, that’s, that’s a point where a physician that might be struggling with that. You know, they hear, you know, a negative connotation and they don’t want to talk about it or they don’t feel like they can,

Dr. Simmons: Right. Exactly. Exactly. And so I think we can be careful about how we address mental health conditions in patients because you never know who’s listening and what their experience is. You know, if not for themselves, maybe they have a family member who’s struggling with a mental health condition and. Now you’ve made it so much less likely that they’re able to share with you what’s going on or help that they might need.

Dr. Simmons: So we are, uh, we’re a healing profession and, uh, [00:31:00] it’s important to remember that even when we’re not on stage. Right. In the room or with the patient.

Kiera Helms: right? Absolutely. Right. And so then, you know, kind of pivoting and looking ahead at, you know, what the foundation’s key objectives and missions are for the future. How can, what are, what are those missions that are your guys are kind of looking forward to in the future? I know you mentioned, you know, re advocating for that act that you had established.

Kiera Helms: What are some other ones that you guys are focusing on?

Dr. Simmons: Yeah. So in addition to reauthorizing the Dr. Lorna Breen Healthcare Provider Protection Act, we are continuing the work to complete the licensing and credentialing reform. Um, And, uh, also working with a group of healthcare worker and family advocates through our ambassador program, uh, to spread the resources that are available, working with hospitals, health systems and states, [00:32:00] and, uh, helping them to improve their own, uh, operations as well. So, um, lots to come and, um, lots of ways to get involved.

Kiera Helms: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And for ways to get involved, what are some of the best ways that our listeners can really participate in advancing this mission?

Dr. Simmons: Well, for for listeners who are interested in getting involved with the foundation, I encourage them, uh, to apply to be an ambassador, but we have over 300 health care worker and family member ambassadors. Uh, we put them in community with each other as well as with the foundation. We have a quarterly meeting and a quarterly, uh, activation.

Dr. Simmons: So whether that’s advocacy or fundraising or, um, education, our ambassadors are out there in the world, uh, carrying this message forward. can also write to their state medical or [00:33:00] nursing boards. Uh, pharmacy boards or dentist, dentistry boards, uh, to advocate that their state change their licensing applications to eliminate invasive and stigmatizing language.

Dr. Simmons: So, uh, in the show notes, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll send you links for both the ambassador application and also those advocacy tools. We also have a toolkit to change the credentialing applications for organizations to be consistent with best practice around this invasive and stigmatizing language. And so for any listener who is involved with credentialing for their organization, for their center, I encourage you to access that toolkit.

Dr. Simmons: Let us help you to get your credentialing standards, uh, to best practice levels. And then lastly, uh, we are, you know, supported philanthropically. So anyone who is able to donate to our mission, we would appreciate the support and it helps us move these great programs forward.[00:34:00]

Kiera Helms: Absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing those resources and for our listeners that are wanting to connect with you or more about your foundation, are there any, you know, LinkedIn, Twitter, any of those? Those social media platforms that you’re on

Dr. Simmons: Yeah. So follow the foundation on Instagram, LinkedIn and X. And we often will post articles where we’re speaking and additional opportunities to connect.

Kiera Helms: amazing. Perfect. Well, on behalf of the entire DocBuddy team. I really want to thank you for being available on this podcast and talking about this really important issue and and these solutions that are amazing and really positive and give me a lot of hope for you know, what can come in the healthcare field.

Kiera Helms: Um, and for our listeners, you know, thank you for listening. Thank you for being open to having this conversation, even though it’s a hard topic to discuss, um, be sure that you’re subscribed on Apple [00:35:00] podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, but you can always hear and watch the newest episodes of the DocBuddy journal.

Kiera Helms: And until next time, I am your host here at homes, and we will talk to you again soon.