Phil Sayles: Consigned Chaos – Automating the OR

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Erik Sunset: Alright, hello and welcome back. I’m Erik, your host of the DocBuddy Journal. Today we’ve got another great guest. It’s Phil Sayles, CEO of Summate Technologies. Phil, thanks for joining us today.

Phil Sayles: Pleasure is mine, Erik.

Erik Sunset: And for our listeners that aren’t familiar with Summate technologies, give a little background, set the table.

Phil Sayles: Sure. Um, again, I Thanks for your time. Um, so the, my foray into, uh, Summate was predicated by a 16 year career as a device rep for Synthes. Uh, it’s now, uh, DePuy Synthes or JJ medical devices. It’s been through several iterations, but, um, as a rep, uh, I worked for the CMF division. I was, uh, in charge of a territory that had three states.

And Synthes makes bone trauma, uh, implants, colloquially it’s plates and screws, drill bits. It’s hardware [00:01:00] that goes into fixed bones, uh, whether trauma fixing trauma or reconstructive surgery. And spent a lot of time in the operating room, spent a lot of time downstairs as it’s called, in sterile processing, putting all these complex sets and trays back together again.

And uh, as such, I noticed that there was a. There’s a gap in the surgical industry, uh, for documentation. And basically it runs from, uh, the nurse’s workstation, which the circulating nurse is in charge of to the patient where the implants are being used. Um, it’s the final mile and it, right now it’s at, for the most part, it’s an analog process of.

Pens, papers, scribbled notes, sticky notes, uh, comprised with several manual entry steps for the provider, whether in purchasing or in the OR with the nurse. Uh, it leads to incredible cost downstream, not only for the providers, but also for [00:02:00] the device companies who were supporting this cumbersome analog process.

Erik Sunset: Well is, isn’t that, uh, just par for the course? Analog process? Sticky notes. Healthcare can’t seem to get away from, uh, a lack of meaningful technology at any, at any venue of care. Uh, so as we get dig a little deeper, what is the source of the problem that some made is solving.

Phil Sayles: Uh, it’s, it’s a great question. It’s something I’ve given a lot of thought to. Um, the problem is really threefold. Um, the first problem is that the software that runs in that operating room is typically called E-H-R-E-M-R software, electronic Health Record, electronic Medical Record. We’re all familiar with that.

Um, this software has become, uh, ubiquitous throughout most of healthcare. And it is governed by very strict rules and regulations with regard to patient privacy. So as such, that software is a poor candidate for bi-directional [00:03:00] data flows. So, uh, any type of scanning process you have the data collection.

For it to work, it’s gotta parse against clean, complete, updated data on the backend, on the database. And this software is not conducive to that environment because it is siloed, it is protected. Um, you just can’t hook. Databases and have database updates coming from the outside on, uh, the usage products.

So it’s a very poor candidate for scanning, and as such, it has maintained, uh, um, basically it’s very prevalent that everything is manually entered into that software by the nurse during the course of the surgery. Um, the, the other problem. Is the, that some of the products, products near and dear to my heart as a synthesis rep were plates, screws at hardware, which are typically millimeter sized.

Uh, think of two or three or four millimeter screws in a set or a tray. Hundreds and hundreds of them in a tray. [00:04:00] Inside the sterile field being used that are poorly if marked at all. So they can’t be barcoded. A millimeter screw just, you can’t put a barcode on it. Um, and documenting those, they’re typically handed back and forth.

If surgeon tries something and doesn’t look like it’s gonna work, they hand it back to the tech. Um, long part numbers. Uh, there’s disposition. Some are wasted, put into the patient and removed. So it’s a very complex usage environment that has avoided automation. So typically you have a rep stand there. Uh, if there’s no rep, you have the nurse try to sort it out.

The tech might write down descriptions of what we’re used three millimeter. Uh, uh, eight, eight millimeter long screw. And then that has to be, uh, translated at the edge of the field and then typed into the computer. So you can see it’s a very long, disjointed process, full of manual interpretation. Um, and that’s typically why there’s a rep at these cases there.

It’s called proctoring. It’s why there’s a rep there, but that’s very expensive to have a rep there for all the cases. Um, [00:05:00] so the, those are the two main problems that exist inside the or, which is hampered documentation automation.

Erik Sunset: Well, you’re, you’re talking to a guy with a long track record in health. It, a lot of that spent in, uh, in EHR land, wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment there. And I, I don’t wanna take a stab at something that you, that you might hear while you’re, while you’re in the field talking about summate with, uh, with ASCs.

Oh, we’ve always done it that way. Either with a proctor case or you got the surgical tech. Oh yeah. This is just how we do it. It’s fine.

Phil Sayles: That’s, it’s, it’s a great point. It’s a, it’s a cultural issue, right? Um, change management is, is very, very difficult. It’s especially difficult in the operative environment. It’s a closed off, sealed off environment. Best business practices are slow to adopt there, um, because of the. Presence of the sterile field.

Um, mission critical, very high pressure situations sometimes. And so, um, often there’s a resistance to change, [00:06:00] especially in that environment.

Erik Sunset: Yeah, and in some cases, probably rightfully so, but, you know, coming from EHRs and different revenue cycle solutions and now a DocBuddy, we’ve always done it that way. Uh, you, you can’t always do it the way that you’ve been doing it, partly because it’s not efficient, but partly because, and this is a little bit of a tangent.

Who are you going to hire to do these things? The, the landscape is just barren to attract and retaining talent’s hard enough as it is, but to get employees to get headcount, which is the typical healthcare fix, just throw FTEs at it. We’ll hire somebody to do that. Can’t even do that anymore.

Phil Sayles: It is, it’s an excellent point. Um, healthcare in, in, in the surgical environment has struggled with. Staffing for nurses, staffing shortages, the development of, uh, traveling nurses where the basic, the nurse comes in as a mercenary and works three months, uh, and leaves. Uh, when a nurse leaves, uh, all that knowledge, an experienced nurse, nurse [00:07:00] walks out that door.

All that knowledge walks out as to where things are, how things are done. Uh, the data entry protocols, uh, it all walks out. So it’s actually a huge benefit. To bring automation to that environment because what it does is it takes the onus off of training that nurse on the documentation processes to an automated procedure, which is very easy to execute and makes the process much simpler for the nurse.

They don’t have to do all that data entry. Study shows that the data entry also doesn’t get done, Erik. Um, if it’s the end of the case and they’re trying to get those implants into the, uh, typed into the system and you have that, the surgeon screaming that he wants to do room turnover, she wants to do room turn turnover because they want to get to their next case.

Um, it creates a very tense environment. So the, the problem is not only, uh, incorrect data, but it’s also, uh, data omission. Uh, the data doesn’t get into the system. There’s a study out there that shows roughly half of all hip and knee implants [00:08:00] are missing two or three pieces of data, serial data, uh, with regard to what was implanted in the patient.

And that has safety implications downstream.

Erik Sunset: I was just gonna say, you took the words outta my mouth. I would wanna know, uh, what implants are I’m walking around with.

Phil Sayles: Well, it’s interesting people don’t think that way. So I’ve, I’ve queried many, many people and said, uh, they get back from the hospital after having a bone fixation or some sort of surgical procedure. And I said, what do they, what do they put in you? And they sort of look at you and go, I, I don’t know. I have no idea.

And if you think about it, you would never go to the store. You would never tolerate that environment. For so many other things in your life. Well, you know, you go get your car fixed. They give you an itemized list of what they put in your car, what the costs were, but, but what’s what went into your car? If you think about it, it’s a little, it’s almost baffling that they’re putting things in your body and you have a better idea what it went into your car than went into your body.

So it’s, it’s a little bit of a mindset. [00:09:00] Uh, for the healthcare consumer. Not to ask about that, but, um, it, it does, as I mentioned, it has safety implications and I, I think that that transparency is a big, has a big, uh, benefit for the patients. And there’s been a lot of talk about it, but this is one area where transparency certainly would benefit the overall patient experience and safety.

Erik Sunset: I am with you and, and maybe I’m, uh, just a little bit different breed of cat, but I wanna know, are we, are we talking titanium? What’s the thread pitch? What’s the head shape on these? Uh,

Phil Sayles: Or, or what’s, what’s the serial number in case there’s a recall? Um, I mean, right now the recall process in healthcare, I, I don’t want to cast dispersions, but, uh, I, I was involved with some recalls and it basically involves a rep crawling through field inventory, trying to find serial numbers or the account, having a clerk go out and you may.

Inventory locations at 10 places in a big hospital system, trying to just hunt and peck to find, uh, there is no, uh, process [00:10:00] to do that’s automated to do the recall. So it’s basically relying on, on, you know, hunt and peck systems, which isn’t very reliable.

Erik Sunset: No, not reliable. Not a good use of time, not a good use of, uh, expense either. And, and as you say, automation is what we’re talking about here. Uh, software has eaten the world except for healthcare. Um, and healthcare seems to have a really tenuous grasp of what automation actually means. How would you define automation to a healthcare stakeholder?

Phil Sayles: So with regard to sur medical devices and surgical implants, um, typically ASCs use or rely on, um, and, and hospitals, uh, increasingly on what’s called consigned inventory. So it’s very, these implants are very costly, very expensive, and for the hospital to buy and carry the inventory is extremely expensive.

Takes up a lot of space. Um, ASCs are the pinches even felt further. They don’t have a lot of space and they are extremely [00:11:00] overhead conscious. Uh, the prospect of, of buying inventory and let it sit on the shelf is daunting. It’s, it’s basically a, a, a, a a a, a games stopper for them. So most of the in inventory, especially in orthopedics, but also with other implants, are what’s called consigned.

So the manufacturer. Or the distributor, ju Generally it’s the manufacturer. O uh, OEM, manufacturer of the devices consigns the inventory to a distributor, or if they have a direct sales rep to the account, whether it’s an A SC or a hospital, that means the hospital doesn’t take ownership and doesn’t pay until they use it.

So, um, there is a long process after the implants are. Into your body to close the business cycle? Um, typically it involves, uh, as I mentioned before, the rep has to write out on paper what was used. The nurse types it in. There’s a copy of that made and it’s brought down to purchasing where it’s input into the business software for the account, uh, with a, with a hospital.

It’s ERP software. [00:12:00] And then there is a process of, of waiting for the invoice from the rep. Very poor price rigor. Often the prices are just accepted when they come in, uh, on an invoice, and then the invoice has to be matched with the record, the record in the ERP and the patient record software manually.

So they gotta go in and look, make sure everything matches. That’s a very long, drawn out process that could be solved with automation. And when I say automation, what I mean is. The matching, the delivery of the invoice, the making sure the price is correct, making sure the quantities and items used are correct.

If there is scanning and is digitalized, all of that can be done from an automated standpoint. So you could take a revenue cycle typically with consigned implants. For orthopedics, it takes a week or two, maybe more if, if there are discrepancies to close out. The, the patient record and the, the, uh, billing record to get it over to billing because they have to wait for that invoice to come in.

So what we’re talking about is automating and digitalizing the information at [00:13:00] point of use during surgery, either with the rep or with the, using imaging or scanning, and then automating the process, downstream process to make sure that everything is copacetic and all of the, all of the records match that can be done through an automated process. You’re, you’re literally talking about shaving weeks off of revenue cycles for ASCs if the process is automated and, and that is, that’s transformational and a significant impact on their revenue.

Erik Sunset: Well, I’ve got a follow on question for you, Phil. What happens if the patient’s closed up and there, there is that discrepancy that you referenced, what are the odds you get it right? I mean, are you looking at what is no longer in your consigned inventory and trying to figure out where it went? How do you, how do you even have a chance of doing that?

Phil Sayles: So if, if you’re looking at the, the overall impact to the device company, which is what, well, what, what is in our tray that’s in the field and, and is it accurate? Um, that’s also a function of automation because if we digitalize a documentation at the beginning, everything [00:14:00] is, is. Correctly, and that filters down for the device company with their field inventory management, which is very important.

Um, the OEM companies have a huge costs, uh, it might be outside of, of, of, uh, actual labor costs. Their biggest cost is their field inventory, and once they put that inventory into the field, they lose sight of where it is and how it’s performing. These are very costly assets. One of the benefits of the automation from a cost management perspective with the OEMs.

For the first time. We also measure what’s used out of each tray through scanning. We scan the tray, uh, so that we know that the dollar volume that was generated out of that tray and that information can be relayed back to the device company and help them manage their field inventory much more efficiently.

Right now, they, it’s very opaque. They don’t really know, um, uh, what’s being used, who’s using it, and how much is used, and stripping away that opacity will really help them manage their op field inventory operations much more efficiently.

Erik Sunset: And not to put words in your [00:15:00] mouth and then benefit the facility as well to know what’s being used, what needs to be included on that claim, and, uh, have reimbursement come full cycle. Right.

Phil Sayles: If, if that can be all automated, it, it’s, it’s literally magical to the revenue cycle. Um, but the, the key, unless you, unless you. Have what’s called in telecom or, or internet, the final mile. You’re only as good as your weakest length, Erik. And if the, if the first part of that process, you’ve, you’ve invested enormous amounts of money in software and digitalization, uh, throughout your business processes.

But if the, the beginning of the is analog, you’re only as good as your weakest link, and it really impacts the rest, the efficiency of the rest of the pro business process.

Erik Sunset: Yeah, I’m, I’m not betting on analog, I’m betting on automation. I’m betting on software. And, you know, one, one thing that I think would be helpful for the audience too is that you’re painting this picture of a, of a better way. There’s a new way, there’s an automated way where you’re not reliant on [00:16:00] labor.

It’s it’s software. It’s uh, it’s technology. Let’s level set with the audience. What does Summate actually do?

Phil Sayles: It, it’s, it’s a, it’s a bit of a story. I’ll try to make it short for you. Um, it’s healthcare, right? So it’s complex. What we’ve done is we’ve reworked the, the basic workflow. That occurs in the operating room with regard to, uh, reco, uh, ca capturing medical device usage. So typically right now we mentioned there’s a rep, uh, the rep writes out what’s used.

They may have their own iPad. Or or app on their phone to punch what was used in. But that goes back to the device company. It does not tie into the EMR into the, the patient record. It can’t because of security problems, their security issues or concerns. What we’re doing is we’re creating a digitalization point right at the edge of the field with the tracker.

So the tracker is a small footprint touchscreen system that sits at the edge of the field that will. Use two new types of [00:17:00] documentation technologies to capture the pesky plates and screws, which are being used in the field as well as, uh, sterile packaged items. ASEs typically rely a lot on sterile packaged items because of space concerns, and they don’t have a big sterile processing to do a set or a tray, but an imaging system which is used in retail to capture that label with one step UDI capture.

So that’s capturing, um. Part number, serial number, expiration date, checking it for FDA recall. So basically what we’re doing is we’re taking that in that final mile from the nurse’s workstation over to the patient. We’re creating a point of use documentation, uh, point where the, the rep can put the information as we do not represent any patient information on the velocity screen.

Velocity is the name of the solution. So if it’s a proctor case, the rep simply puts the part numbers. Into the software. The software is integrated, so at the end of the case, the [00:18:00] nurse comes over and authenticates for packaged items. We have an imaging system that uses, um, uh, a, a, our partner symmetric healthcare solutions database, 20 million item database to image the product label to capture what was used in one step.

As I mentioned, serial number, lot number. Expiration date, check for FDA, recall to increase patient safety, amalgamate, all that information. We haven’t used any patient, uh, or, or accessed any patient data so the rep can access that screen and sending it to where it needs to go, not only to the provider, but also to the device company as well.

Um, it loosely competes with some systems out there. The difference between what we are doing is we’re digitalizing it for the provider. Um, if you’re using a, um, an inventory management system right now as a device rep and you’ve got your own system, you still are handing them a paper copy of what’s been used for the nurse to put in and for purchasing to put in.

So we’re creating an all-in-one system that digitalizes [00:19:00] it for everyone in. The supply chain. Um, it’s a new, it’s reworking that, that, uh, uh, documentation process for the surgical suite, but it benefits everyone. Um, and I, I could go into just very quickly, uh, how our system works. Is that typically, as I mentioned, what’s running in the hospital typically does not have complete updated databases because of the security concerns around the, uh, patient record software.

So our software consists of three pieces. First is data ingestion. We ingest price books. Um, all of the information from the vendors gets ingested. We scan or we document at the edge of the field. Against that information. If for, for any, if there’s any, uh, uh, possibility that the data hasn’t been ingested, we go out to the symmetric database.

It’s a 20 million item database. We match, uh, against that. Then we return the information that we found, and that’s how [00:20:00] we can capture stuff that may be not on the master item list for the a SC, and we can return. And then there’s a rectification stage, uh, in our software. So after the documentation done, the, the nurses approve the case.

There’s the ability for the purchasing people to have everything digitalized to go in, edit, make amendments, what we call rectify the data, and then it’s saved. So once that’s saved and once it’s been, uh, um. Uh, basically, uh, uh, checked by purchasing. We write to the master item list for that account for that a SC.

So what we’re doing is we’re not only improving the documentation, but we’re building a foundational data set that the as c can use, uh, to run their business. Uh, master item data has always been a pro problem for ASEs. It’s a problem for hospitals as well. Clean data. We’re helping them build clean, complete master item data, uh, master item data to better run their businesses.

Erik Sunset: It sounds like a huge breath of fresh air to me. ’cause you’re, you’re killing a few birds with one stone, [00:21:00] obviously. Uh, uh, surgical outcomes and patient safety. Check that box. You’re able to accelerate revenue cycles. That’s huge. As you pointed out, ASCs are operating on razor thin margins and even a couple of days difference in.

Uh, the beginning of the revenue cycle for that claim is massive. Not to mention the SUR surgeon satisfaction, they’re getting the distributions in a given month that they thought that they would be getting. So that makes everybody happy if, if Doc is happy. Um, what, what else am I missing? What other stakeholders get a big impact here?

Phil Sayles: Sure. Uh, studies show that the, the part of the job nurses hate the most. It’s typically called charting. I think you’re probably pretty familiar with this, um, number of studies, numerous studies out there that show that is the most reviled part of the circulating, at least the circulating nurses job. The studies we have, um.

They see themselves as caregivers. They’re not data entry clerks. So by taking the data entry burden away from the nurse, having to type all that information into the system, massive [00:22:00] uh, uh, benefit there for the nurses for job satisfaction, top line revenue can be increased. Studies have shown that between five to 15% of implants that are used during surgery are missed because of this manual process.

We’re gonna close that gap significantly. A a a five to 15%, uh, revenue increase for, uh, reimbursed implants is a significant top line gain for an A SC. Um, these implants are very, very expensive. Um, we mentioned patient safety checks for FDA recall. Um, I think the, the, the final one I would say is that it also brings, um, cost, rigor, and the, the ability to.

For the a SC to create an automated process so they can do more surgeries without having to hire support people. One of the things we’ve seen is the as SC struggle to grow because especially in areas where they have consigned implants coming in, if it’s orthopedics, [00:23:00] um, the, the, um, uh, staffing required to, to bring extra more surgeons in different procedures in.

Um, is significant for an A SC and it’s always a, a cat and mouse game. If you’re bringing more surgeons in that have different vendors or different types of, um, implants that they’re using, that’s a significant learning curve in an investment from a support perspective. Perspective for the A SC if we’re automating that process and we’re making it easier with, excuse me, with less downstream support required.

Basically what I’m, what I’m selling here to the A SC is that we’re gonna help you do more in varied cases. Um, as more and more moves to an A SC, automation is going to allow more types of surgeries and better customer service for the surgeon as to what implants they want to use, uh, for taking that surgery to an A SC.

Erik Sunset: Uh, that’s. That’s a powerful point. And I wanna shout out our, our good friend [00:24:00] Michael McLean out on, uh, on the West Coast. He’s a, a very well-regarded speaker and, uh, a SC consultant. But what you just said about more and varied cases, you know, he draws a line in the sand that more is more, but different is not necessarily more.

It sounds like you’re able to, uh, flatten the learning curve a little bit if you are gonna be adding, say, cardiac procedures to your A SC. Um, and I’m not. Uh, maybe I’m outta my depth here, but the type of implants and anything being used in a, in a cardiac case, but if you’re able to lessen the documentation burden on nurses, that’s one less thing to worry about.

Where more is more, but different is not more.

Phil Sayles: Right. And, and the, the, the other thing I would say, Erik, is that we are. Always looking to retail. Summate is always looking to retail, to how retail does things. Um, I hold retail up as a shining example of ultimate efficiency with supply chain management and, uh. [00:25:00] One thing that we have seen historically, and I I, I just think it, there’s, it’s a home run, is that automation is used in every industry in the world.

I mean, it has, I think of Amazon, think of Walmart a, an interesting story, uh, for people that are thinking about automation in the surgical, uh, uh, provider space. The, the adoption, the first movers that adopt this typically show an enormous competitive advantage. Um, think of Walmart, think of Amazon. All that is really, I don’t, I don’t want to belittle it by saying all, but it’s, it’s automation. And so when things are used, when you order something on Amazon. That goes, that is automated. That’s, that’s at the manufacturing plan. If they’re, they make it in China. So you wanna think about an efficient supply chain. When you’re sitting at your desk and you order something, you know what the price is?

There’s a price signal. We bring a price signal to the market. Um, and the by digitalizing at the point of views, you create amazing efficiencies in the supply chain [00:26:00] Back. And that’s benefit will be most sharply felt or or most significantly felt by the device companies who have a giant sloppy supply chain.

Right now, with regard to that field inventory, relying on distributors again, that are using paper phone calls, everything can be transmitted back to the OEM instantly. It’s a cultural change. The industry relies on reps. It’s very rep dependent. And I wanna make a point here that the reps. Typically can feel threatened by something like this.

I mean, think about that. You’ve got your livelihood. I was a rep. I certainly understand that. However, um, the benefit of automation to the reps, and I said the automation benefits every party to, to the, to the, to the technology. The reps will benefit as well because right now what happens as a rep, if you are an orthopedic device rep. You have a certain size you can grow to. And then because of all the manual nature of having to be at all the cases, [00:27:00] having to bring the sets and trays in, having to, to have, even having someone pick them up. But managing that process is a lot of scut work, as we used to call it. If you are taking that off the plate through automation, you are going to allow, uh, device reps to cover more territory and. Potentially what’s near and dear to every rep’s heart. Better, more income. They’ll be able to cover 15 accounts instead of four accounts or five accounts. So the automation does long term. If you’re a good rep, it benefit. It will benefit a good rep who knows how to sell, and it frees them up much less time running around and more time selling, more time supporting and building relationships with their customers.

Erik Sunset: There, there’s an interesting parallel there to the rush to AI and healthcare We’ve seen over the last two years, you know, initial excitement and then fear over, oh my gosh, this software I just selected is gonna put me out of a job. That’s not gonna be the case there. There still needs to be a human in the loop.

Hopefully that human in the loop with automation, [00:28:00] technology, this digital transformation we’re talking about, you just need to have that human in the loop doing more valuable things. Obviously in the example you gave. That is, uh, so that the rep can cover more territory, which is great. That makes them happier.

They’ll have happier clients that they don’t need to be proctoring cases and fielding phone calls at, at all hours to be sure they’re where they need to be. And in the case of the healthcare facilities, how about better patient care or. In addition to better patient care, more time spent with patients working patient accounts, ensuring that you’re paid what you’re owed, there’s just, uh, a whole galaxy of examples of, yes, technology is different.

Yes, it’s a change. Shouldn’t be scared of it though, not unless you’re doing it poorly at your job.

Phil Sayles: It’s, it’s been prevalent throughout history. Uh, disruptive technologies, um, are almost always on the right side of history. Erik. Um, adoption takes time. An interesting story when barcoding was first introduced in retail, um, the [00:29:00] technology was developed in the early sixties, late fifties, early sixties.

Scanners were not prevalent at the register until the late, mid to late seventies. It took retail 20 years to adopt. The investment. Now, the, the key for the retailers is they didn’t wanna invest in the scanners at the register. We’d rather pay someone $3 an hour to punch it into the system. Uh, it took IBM who developed that reading technology about 15 years to get it into the field.

Once it went, it went incredibly fast. And as we mentioned, it had transformational, uh, benefits for retail, for consumers, benefits, everyone. So we are absolutely on the right side of history with automation. The change management, as we’ve said, is very difficult for the vendors, uh, for the device companies and for the, the nurses and for the providers.

But there’s absolutely no doubt that it’s gonna have seminal, uh, impact on the healthcare industry and that that’s gonna benefit everyone. It’ll even benefits the payers.[00:30:00]

Erik Sunset: Can’t forget about the payers. The third leg on that stool, patient providers, payers, that in our discussion today may be the fourth leg of the school, the, uh, the implant OEMs. So Phil, that, that feels like a pretty, a pretty good shake here about summate, about the major problem that you’re solving. What didn’t we cover that we should have?

Phil Sayles: All right. I gotta think about this one. This, this will be off the, uh, um, so we are, we’re, this’ll be offline here. If, if you’re okay with that. We’re, we’re, we’re struggling with getting, who’s gonna be the first adopter we’ve. We’ve, we’ve been to the device companies. There’s a resistance there to doing, to, to, what the device companies don’t wanna do is alienate their distributors or their sales force.

Uh, they rely on them for growth. They rely on them for field support, and it’s the lifeblood of, of their entire top line sales process. Um, so I think that there’s some, [00:31:00] uh, uh, trepidation from the device companies. We’ve been, we started with hospitals. Forget that the hospitals, again, not to cast aspersions on the hospital industry, but change is so difficult from an organizational standpoint for hospitals because the hospitals, you have to get, there’s so many parties that this touches within the hospital.

There’s the nurses, there’s the surgeons, there’s it. There’s, or management, there’s purchasing, um, in the hospitals, organizing all five of those, herding all five of those cats is a really, really tough problem. Um, the way to do it is through integration. Um, so we’ve been, we have our mandate and our sole focus over the last six months is to. Once we have the integration with the existing software, uh, entities within the hospital or the a SC, that’s when the system really shines. Um, it’s a chicken and egg problem with getting the product to market [00:32:00] because the software companies have a long list of people who want to integrate with them. And typically what they say to a new technology is, well bring us 10 customers, or bring us 15 customers, and then we’re, we’re interested.

The problem there is that the product is not. Uh, really, um, uh, optimized. If it doesn’t have integration. In fact, it’s. It’s kind of useless. Without integration, we, we rely on that integration. And when we go to the, the, the, uh, ASEs and we go to the providers, they say, well, are you integrated? So we’ve, we’ve got a chicken and egg.

We’re pushing both piles, but it’s been a real challenge for us because this is really disruptive. It’s a different way of doing thing. It introduces new technology. Um. Getting both piles to move or getting that critical mass with either the providers or with the, uh, existing software companies has been a real challenge for us.

Erik Sunset: Hmm. Yeah, that. Uh, I don’t have any words of wisdom. You’re doing what you need to do there. They’re, uh, difficult

Phil Sayles: it’s [00:33:00] pressure and time. As, as, as one of my advisors, David Howerton says, uh, who’s a great guy? Uh, that’s how you make diamonds is pressure and time, and it’s just a grind. Um, we’re, we’re making progress. We’ve just signed our first, uh, in, uh, integration partner. So we’ve got a, we’ve got a er, EHR software company that’s gonna be doing, we’re gonna be doing an integration.

Their take. And the, the benefit there, Erik, is that then we roll it in and it works. It’s all ready to go. It just, you roll it in and it goes. Um, and as I mentioned, the, with all parties benefiting. Once it goes, we think it’s going to go very, very quickly. It didn’t retail. I mean, try to think of a place, a retail establishment now that’s not using a a, a scanner.

Erik Sunset: No, I got you. Gotta do it yourself now too. I’m the one doing the scanning.

Phil Sayles: Right, exactly. So, uh, we believe we’re on the right side of history here, um, that the technology will get there. So it’s, it’s a matter of patience per and persistence in, in trying to get both the chicken and egg problem [00:34:00] solved with the providers and the existing software companies to do the integration as well as to educate.

Inform the device companies, uh, who can also be very helpful in the introduction process. Uh, with, with our set and tray technology, we need their, uh, uh, cooperation. So, um, this, you might wanna put this later, but, um, one, one of the benefits of, of the, the velocity solution is that that manual process of plates and screws, we have a, a way to.

Tag the trays to make the documentation and interpretation of what’s used. Really simple. It’s actually going to use voice recognition, and so basically the technician in the field can just announce a simple number. To document what might be a 10 digit part number from, uh, and we mark the trays with these simple numbers.

We call it ortho indexing. And basically what will happen is the, uh, the technician in the field will wake the, the [00:35:00] velocity up by saying tracker. Tray one implant 12, as opposed to trying to figure out what a 14 digit part number for that screw is. Um, so it takes all of the guess work and interpretation out and it streamlines.

But for that process to work, we need to have the cooperation, uh, and and involvement with the device companies. ’cause at the end of the day, it’s their sets and trays. We just make them very much simpler to use at the end of the day, in any industry, if you make your product simpler to use, uh, again, history shows that.

The adoption of that product will be accelerated by ease of use.

Erik Sunset: Love it. Well, as we, as we wrap up our, our experience here, Phil, where can, uh, folks find more about you online, more about Summate online? Where can you point ’em?

Phil Sayles: So we, we have two websites. One is focused on, uh, the value we bring to Velocity brings to the ambulatory surgery center. It’s www scan implants.com and we have a, a, a larger, more generic site, uh, at summate.net. Which [00:36:00] includes information on all of our technology. Um, we’re actively looking to sign up partners within the device industry as well as, uh, gain interest with, um, some of the, the A SC market.

Erik Sunset: Well, Phil, thank you so much for joining us today. I’ll be sure to get links to those destinations into the show notes. And on behalf of the entire DocBuddy team, we wanna thank you for listening. As always, be sure you’re subscribed on YouTube, apple Podcasts and Spotify. And until next time, I’m your host Erik.

Thanks again.

Phil Sayles: Thanks for the opportunity.