Maximizing Reimbursements, Strategic Contract Negotiation w/ Mark Schroeder

Erik Sunset: [00:00:00] All right. Hello and welcome back. I’m Erik Sunset, your host of the DocBuddy Journal. If you’re a first time listener, welcome. If you have listened before, welcome back. And today we’re joined by Mark Schroeder. Mark is the VP of Growth at Aroris Healthcare. Mark, thanks so much for joining us.

Mark Schroeder: Yeah, thanks for having me, Erik. Glad to be here.

Erik Sunset: It’s absolutely our pleasure to have you here. Before we get into the meat and potatoes of the episode, What else should listeners know about you and your work at Aroris?

Mark Schroeder: Yeah, awesome. I’ll share a little bit about my personal background first. So, uh, healthcare has been a kind of a big part of my life personally for forever, really. My dad’s in the medical field. Sisters are both nurses. So I’ve been seeing healthcare, um, personally in that regards. And then, um, professionally, I started my healthcare career on the payer side at UnitedHealthcare.

Mark Schroeder: Um, spent eight years over on the payer side, recently transitioning over to Aroris, which works directly with physician groups, filling that payer provider gap.

Erik Sunset: That’s [00:01:00] awesome. So you’re, uh, there’s nobody better versed to talk about, uh, provider and payer relationships than you, maybe. And that’s, uh, that’s why you’re here today. I know some of the, some of the things that we want to talk about revolve around reimbursement. Uh, private practice reimbursement and its outlook for this year compared to last year.

Erik Sunset: What are you seeing so far? I mean, we’re 2025, so there’s got to be something that’s changed.

Mark Schroeder: Yeah, I mean, I think, to be honest, 2025 is probably going to be a tough, another tough year in healthcare. Um, there’s a lot of, a lot of key points that we need to target, um, and, and help fix, and it’s not going to be fixed by one party. It’s going to take a team of people and different, different, you know, companies and payers and providers working together to figure it out.

Mark Schroeder: Um, so I would say 2025, um, is, is going to be another difficult year. Um, in healthcare, but with the right partners in place, I think we can, we can find some good solutions and, and get it back on track.

Erik Sunset: Yeah, and [00:02:00] unfortunately for those on the provider side of things, the healthcare organization side of things, when that 2025 CMS final payment rule was published, There wasn’t anybody happy about that. I think there was a couple of bright spots depending on specific communities. Maybe you serve in a certain classification like your HCs, EHCs, but it’s never enough.

Erik Sunset: It’s, it’s not enough. And obviously CMS sets their rates themselves. Rorris is dealing with, uh, private payers that is. So when you say it’s going to be another, another tough year. Are there any reasons that you can point to specifically? Are there any notable specialties that are really up against it compared to years gone by?

Mark Schroeder: Yeah, and I mean, I think it’s, it’s, it’s going to be a tough year simply because the rising cost for a practice to stay open, a surgery center to stay open, the cost of supplies, lights, staff, I mean, you name it, everything’s going up, um, and the payers are typically slow to follow. Um, so that’s, that’s really the challenge that we’re facing.

Mark Schroeder: You know, [00:03:00] costs have gone up quite significantly for a practice over the last two years. Um, and if, if we’re getting two or 3 percent increases or even decreases from CMS, like you mentioned, it’s, it’s not sustainable. So we have to figure out a solution. Um, and, and it’s, and it’s really. A lot of, a lot of groups just might not have the resources that it takes to dig into those negotiations and, and look at their contracts in a way to find those opportunities.

Mark Schroeder: So really putting, putting the power of data behind a group, um, and some expertise behind it, whether it’s new technologies that are out there to create them and make them more efficient. Um, I think it’s going to be important for groups to look at in 25, um, to find areas of success. Whether it’s increased revenue through efficiencies from an operational standpoint or new equipment, um, there’s a lot of new stuff out there that, that can allow groups to capture some revenue if it’s not coming from payer increase and reimbursements.

Erik Sunset: Again, it’s just like it’s getting from bad to worse when you look at the macro landscape of being [00:04:00] a physician in any care setting. Physicians are retiring way ahead of schedule and certainly, uh, support anybody’s rate to retire whenever they want. When you look at physician as an occupation, we already don’t have enough.

Erik Sunset: Uh, they’re burned out for reasons that do include reimbursement, but a myriad of reasons. technology, too much administrative tasks or too many administrative tasks. You can point your finger at a half dozen different things that across all of the surveys say are driving physicians away from the occupation.

Erik Sunset: Um, and that they’re continuing to be up against the wall with reimbursement. You know, this does not look like a very bright outlook for these independent. Um, however, uh, some viewed it as a bright spot, some obviously didn’t, but in addition to that 2025 final payment rule that CMS handed down, we had a presidential election, you know, within two weeks of that, my memory serves.

Erik Sunset: Do you have any predictions on reimbursement under the, the second Trump administration, either [00:05:00] short term or long term?

Mark Schroeder: Yeah, I want to hit one more thing back on the independent practices. Um, it just, you know, the, the comment that you made, um, just around independent practices. And I know I don’t want to make it sound like it’s all doom and gloom out there. We need independent practices. for a healthy healthcare ecosystem.

Mark Schroeder: I’m super passionate about it. Um, and I would tell you just my experience from being on the payer side and knowing that side of the world, having a father and family who’s in medicine. Um, we need independent practices. If, if, if everything goes away and, and we can’t see care through an ASC or an independent group, our costs are only going to go up.

Mark Schroeder: Um, so I think what we’ve seen is conversations from our negotiations, um, from the payer side are, they’re, they’re more willing to listen, right? Because they understand that, you know, we need to make sure groups are getting paid fairly. Um, so they can stay open. They can keep providing the quality care to the patients and members that, that’s [00:06:00] expected.

Mark Schroeder: Um, their time shouldn’t be focused on going through data and going through negotiations and you know, our average negotiation is about 80 to 100 touch points with a payer, multiple proposals, multiple phone calls. And if it’s usually on a CEO or a physician to negotiate those contracts. They have a lot of other things on their plate from a physician side.

Mark Schroeder: They’re paid to provide care. Um, that’s where their time needs to time and energy needs to be focused. Um, so finding partners out there that can help you, um, whether it’s through technology or a company that can help with reimbursements, I think is going to be a vital part to. the success of independent groups.

Erik Sunset: couldn’t agree more. We’re flying the flag high for independent practices here at DocBuddy and as you point out for the broader healthcare ecosystem as a healthcare consumer and we all are or we will be at some points. Uh, we need independent groups. Absolutely. Couldn’t agree more there. So glad, glad to, glad that you pointed that [00:07:00] out.

Erik Sunset: And then looking at this, uh, new president or second go around for an older president, is there anything on the radar, good, bad, or ugly in terms of reimbursement for, uh, for our independent practices?

Mark Schroeder: Yeah, nothing that, nothing that we’re seeing, it’s early yet, right? Um, I, I don’t think we’re going to see any changes or any, anything that’s happening, um, right away in 25, but you know, there might be some little things that are implemented throughout the time. And what you’re going to see is depending on what gets passed.

Mark Schroeder: Um, from the new administration, the payers are going to take a look at that, whether they’re looking from, you know, making changes to an overall contract because of, um, some new policies that might get put in place, or it’s, it’s a more, more of a heavy focus on value based care. Um, I think value based care has been something that’s been a buzzword for, for 20 years.

Mark Schroeder: Um, it’s something that makes sense if it’s implemented the right way for groups, but we have to make sure we’re tracking the right [00:08:00] metrics. Um, for that. So I think what you’ll see is depending on what policies get passed, the payers will start making some changes. Through contract language or just through focusing more on value based care different different reimbursement methodologies

Erik Sunset: Yeah, you’re right. It is. It is still early. A lot remains to be seen and for folks that want to hear a little bit more about broader healthcare policy in the U. S. related to the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare, and some of the bigger, more macro points that affect all healthcare consumers, we’ve got an episode with Scott Becker from December, and then check out Mark Ryan from mid November on our feed.

Erik Sunset: But Mark, we’ve kind of flirted with it. Uh, these independent practices going up against the machine, and obviously we need all parts of healthcare to code this together, the patient, the provider, and the payer. Uh, but you painted that picture of an independent group or practice CEO or lead physician, maybe they’re the [00:09:00] same person, getting a large PDF in their inbox.

Erik Sunset: You need to go through that, read it, figure out what could be better. What do I need to do to get the best rate for my group? What happens if they can’t do that? Either don’t have the expertise or don’t have the time.

Mark Schroeder: Yeah, I mean, it’s it’s it’s why Aroris health was created, right? We were created because we fill that payer provider gap. We sit in one lane All we do is work with physician groups surgery centers Um, hospitals and negotiate contracts with the insurance companies. Um, when you have a, a practice that, that doesn’t have the, the resources or staff and, and it’s, it falls on a CEO’s plate or a physician’s plate.

Mark Schroeder: Um, the time and energy it takes to negotiate a fair contract, you’re not just negotiating rates. A lot of times you’re looking at language of the agreements too. Maybe your contract’s 15 years old and you have a couple amendments throughout the way. If you’re not looking back at the full agreement, you could be, you could be putting yourself at [00:10:00] risk through language of your agreement as well.

Mark Schroeder: So not just focusing on your rates, but focusing and taking a look at that, at that full contract is something that’s super important, um, that you need to make sure you’re looking at. From the reimbursement side and the codes. If you look at an orthopedic group that’s, you know, billing out a couple hundred codes, um, if you get a 3 percent proposal from, from a payer, you need to apply that to the specific utilization of the practice to see what kind of impact that’s going to have to the revenue.

Mark Schroeder: We see it time and time again in our business where, you know, it might take six months or four months of negotiating from the practice side to get to a 3 percent increase that they’ve been able to do on their own. If you take, if you take the word that it’s a 3 percent increase, it might not be to revenue.

Mark Schroeder: Simply because of where the increases are happening on the fee schedule. It might be an aggregate to the full fee schedule where you’re getting a 10 percent increase on a surgical code. You might do 10 surgeries for a year and a 10 percent decrease on some E& Ms that really [00:11:00] drive the revenue for the group.

Mark Schroeder: Um, so it’s super important that you make sure that you’re applying the proposal that you get from the payer Directly to your practice and the utilization so, you know, what kind of revenue impact it would have

Erik Sunset: Well, I want to go back to something you said around contract language too. And you know, as specific as you can be, what are some of the common gotchas? If it is a 15 year old agreement, a couple of addendums, a couple of adjustments along the way. Where does that trip up practices or what kind of things trip up practices?

Mark Schroeder: Yeah, there there could be something as simple as bundling withholding a lease network in there Just something to pay attention to in that regards. But again, there’s there’s a lot of you know, a 60 to 90 page agreement Um, you need to make sure that you’re looking at kind of those key sections, um, to make sure that nothing’s in there around that’s going to affect the reimbursements and how, how you’re actually reimbursed.

Erik Sunset: One, that’s, I mean, that’s why we’re here talking today. If you’re one of these unfortunate either groups or practices that doesn’t have the bandwidth or just takes the first [00:12:00] offer, what happens to that type of group compared to their peers? I imagine they fall behind to some degree.

Mark Schroeder: Yeah. I mean, I alluded to it a little bit ago and, and, you know, by, by not doing the analysis of what the impact of that increase would be. And a lot of times what happens is if it takes again, three or four months to get to a certain 3%, 4 percent price point, you know, a lot of times they’re being signed.

Mark Schroeder: Because they just want to get put in place and the renewal dates coming up and, you know, we just got to get this finalized so we can go back to practicing care or as a CEO, you can go back to making sure that practice is running efficiently and you’re doing everything that you need to do on that. And so the impact can long term have a major effect on on long term revenue.

Mark Schroeder: Because if you’re leaving, you could be 15 percent behind market, you know, if you don’t know where market sits from a data standpoint. Um, and where your proposals should be, maybe a 4 percent increase, you’re still 15 percent behind market. [00:13:00] Um, so we need to be going back for more.

Erik Sunset: How would somebody know that? Is there open source data you can look around and see? I mean, genuine question here that may lead you into the core value prop for Aroris, but how would somebody know that? Uh, independent of

Mark Schroeder: Yeah, the price transparency data has never been more available, right? It’s out there, you can get it. Um, the important piece of that is making sure that, that, um, you can understand it. Um, there’s third party partners out there that, that will make those machine readable files readable. Or it’s finding a partner that, that focuses in it and, you know, what we do at Aroris, you know, we’re going to make sure that we’re evaluating the proposals.

Mark Schroeder: We know where the market’s at. We have 150 clients across 40 states now, um, so a really good understanding of, you know, the uniquenesses to each specialty too, because that, that does play a factor, multi specialty groups. Um, you know, so just getting a, getting a better, better idea of where markets should be at.

Mark Schroeder: There’s multiple different ways you [00:14:00] can look at it. Um, whether that’s looking for a transparency partner that you can get some rates from it. Um, or finding a third party partner that helps you negotiate your contracts, give you a better line of sight.

Erik Sunset: So that, that makes a ton of sense. I’m showing my, showed my ignorance there a little bit on the, uh, price transparency data to go back to our example. You’re this, you’re this group that just renewed their agreements and they’re listening to this episode going, Oh my gosh, we didn’t do hardly anything. We have a really small, tooled around in and it looked okay.

Erik Sunset: Is it too late? What can they do?

Mark Schroeder: Yeah. I don’t think you’re ever too late. Um, you know, I hear it a lot where, you know, I’ll ask a group when I’m talking to them, when was the last time you negotiated your contracts? Um, and then I don’t even want to tell you, you know, it’s been 10 or 15 years and I was like, look, it might’ve surprised me in the beginning when I came over on this side talking to physician groups, but, um, it doesn’t surprise me anymore.

Mark Schroeder: And, and, [00:15:00] and, and it’s not. Something that that is necessarily a terrible thing. You know, you can, we can make up some ground from it. Um, but yeah, it’s important that that you, you put a focus on what you’re getting reimbursed. You know, that that’s how you’re, you’re going to make your money to, you know, continue on with the longevity of your practice and continue to provide that quality care.

Mark Schroeder: So making sure you’re being reimbursed appropriately, super important. But if you haven’t done anything, Okay. Don’t feel bad about it. You’re not alone And there’s people out there that can help.

Erik Sunset: And in that instance, is there, uh, and just speaking in generalities, obviously we have, we just renewed with United and we have a Florida blue contract coming up next month. If you already know what you got from the first payer that you already signed, isn’t probably what you should be getting. Is there any recourse for a practice or do you need to wait until the next renewal term?

Mark Schroeder: Yeah, a lot of times it depends on you [00:16:00] know Is it a is it a single year deal? Are you in a multi year con? Did you sign a three year contract? Um, if you’re in a three year contract Um, it’s not guaranteed that you’re going to be able to get out of it, um, but there are ways that we could work around that, um, and try to have that conversation and open that conversation up either with an amendment to the contract or some, some unique strategy that we could possibly apply to try to make sure that we can get ahead of it before the three years are up, but, um, not necessarily guaranteed that you’d be able to get out of that, which is why it’s important to make sure that you’re, Um, You’re negotiating your contracts and that they’re in the best interest of your group.

Erik Sunset: Yeah, that makes sense and certainly don’t want to put words in your mouth. I’m just taking a stab at this. Obviously, I’m on the physician workflow side, not on the reimbursement negotiation side. I would imagine if you have a recently signed renewal and it just is not going to get you into black numbers, you know, you’re going to be taking a loss.

Erik Sunset: When you factor in like keeping the lights on, as you [00:17:00] said, FTE time supply costs. All the way down the line. Is there a way to go back to the payer and say, this is a mistake. You know, after further analysis, these rates are not sustainable and you’re going to lose me because I will be closing my doors or selling to the health system if we don’t talk about this.

Mark Schroeder: Yeah, for sure. For sure is a strategy that you’d have to play. Um, now it’s not, again, it’s not going to be guaranteed that the payer will, you know, accept that as, you know, okay, let’s open it back up for negotiation, but he hope with, you know, they understand the value that you’re providing to their members in the area and, you know, showing real examples of, hey, look, here’s the deal.

Mark Schroeder: I, you know, if you can show the cost of, Either what you’re saving for doing it in a, if we’re talking surgery centers, you know, the cost savings to do the, the service or the surgery in a surgery center versus a hospital significant savings to the payer from the payer side. So, you know, if you’re like, Hey, look, here’s the deal.

Mark Schroeder: [00:18:00] If I don’t do something here, we might not be around in a year or six months to continue to provide the quality care that we are to your members. And if we go away, then. the care is going to be done in the hospital. Now, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with care in the hospital, but from a member looking from a member perspective or in a payer perspective, it’s cost savings to do it in a surgery center.

Mark Schroeder: Um, so keeping that open and keeping them not just surviving, but we like to say thriving, right? We don’t just want our groups just barely getting by and survive just surviving. You know, it’s, how do we get you to thriving, growing, expanding, you know, continuing to open up access to more members. Um, that’s, that’s really what we strive for.

Erik Sunset: Well, that, that underlines the point that it’s really never too late. You might not get the answer you want, but the answer’s no if you don’t ask.

Mark Schroeder: Correct. Exactly right.

Erik Sunset: So one of the things I’m curious, uh, Mark, what are some of the, the things that you hear from groups that you work with [00:19:00] or groups that you want to work with or not working with? Any group, I guess. Where they’re telling you, Oh, we just went through a great negotiation with this payer. Tell me more about it.

Erik Sunset: And really it wasn’t a great negotiation. What are some of the common ways folks can get tripped up? And I think you might’ve hinted at this with looking at volumes of the, the codes and the increases in the fees for each code. And how many are you actually doing? Like a 20 percent increase on a code you bill 10 times a year.

Erik Sunset: Doesn’t really move the needle.

Mark Schroeder: Yeah, I mean, that’s exactly it. You gotta, you gotta look at it and apply it to your actual utilization. Um, and a lot of times, you know, we hear it from groups where, you know, they feel like they’re, they’re in a good spot. Um, they’re doing well, but can compared to the market. They’re still behind. Right? So I would even say even, even the best payer that you have, the payer that you’re getting reimbursed the most for, there still might be room to move that up alongside working those other payers to a higher price point.

Mark Schroeder: And that even if, you know, [00:20:00] our, our model and philosophy is if, if a payer is reimbursing fair, we won’t touch it. That’s fine. Our, our foot, we want to make sure groups are getting paid fairly. We’re not going into a negotiation, trying to take advantage of, of the payers at all. Our job is to strengthen that relationship between the payer and the providers and make sure that groups are getting paid fairly Um, so if we can lift another payer up to a higher price point, it allows us to create some of that leverage Um, so we really dig in and and focus and try to figure out, you know Where the areas of opportunities are you can learn a lot just by you don’t need transparency data To understand where the opportunities are in your contracts, either you can evaluate and take a look and just see where current reimbursements are amongst your fee schedules, you know, if you’re a orthopedic practice and you’re billing out, let’s say 20 codes make up 70 percent of the revenue.

Mark Schroeder: Focus on those 20 codes amongst your [00:21:00] contracts, your top three or four contracts that are again going to do 70 to 80 percent of your revenue. And you can get a pretty good line of sight to, Hey, look, my 99214 with, with UHCs that reimbursing at 250 bucks a unit. But my 99214 with Blue Crosses. is 50 bucks higher.

Mark Schroeder: So, you know, right there, there is a, there’s a gap that, that you can leverage through that negotiation. So, um, even if you’re billing out a ton of codes, it’s really, you know, honing in on those, those, those specific codes that drive the majority of the revenue and then those main revenue driving payers that.

Mark Schroeder: Um, can, can really help put you in a better spot. Just looking internally.

Erik Sunset: I mean, that’s really logical to me, but we’re talking about two things most, uh, healthcare organizations don’t have, which is time to do this analysis, and then somebody that’s comfortable actually performing the analysis. Uh, kind of a unicorn. If you can even [00:22:00] make the hire, finding somebody that has both of those things.

Erik Sunset: I guess the one thing, the expertise, if it’s a part of their job, they have the time.

Mark Schroeder: Yeah.

Erik Sunset: So that, um, that all makes good sense to me. Um, in terms of some of the other snags that you see folks overcoming, what are a couple of recent, either big wins or notable anecdotes for the listeners out there?

Mark Schroeder: Yeah. I mean, uh, uh, a recent case study that, that I like to talk about goes right back to what we were just, what we were just chatting about on, on reimbursements and how it applies to the actual revenue of the group. You know, a payer came back to one of our groups and clients of ours and, and said it was an 8 percent increase.

Mark Schroeder: And any group would be like, where’s my pen? I’m going to sign it now, right? You know, it sounds like a great deal When we ran it through our analytics It would if they would have done the same volume as they did the year prior It would have actually been a 1. 2 percent loss in revenue Because [00:23:00] of where they were applying the increases and decreases on their fee schedule and what codes mattered to them um, so we We flipped the script on our negotiation and applied an 8 percent increase because we knew the payer was willing to obviously give an 8 percent increase.

Mark Schroeder: So we just gave increases on the fee schedules to the codes that mattered to them that added up to an overall 8 percent increase in revenue and it was accepted. Um, now they’re not all going to go that easy or quick, but again, if you don’t, if the whole point of bringing that case study up is you have to make sure that you’re looking at the data because if you’re not looking at how it applies to your actual practice, you’re going to be leaving money on the table.

Erik Sunset: Yeah. Well, and one of the, one of the other things I’m curious about, Mark, is that the provider and payer relationship is generally at best adversarial. And borderline hostile a lot of times. And in my experience, when you go back to the payer and [00:24:00] say, we really need to talk about this fee schedule you’re proposing, it’s It doesn’t work.

Erik Sunset: It’s not enough. And here’s why. What do you see happen to that relationship between the payer and the practice or the facility going forward?

Mark Schroeder: Yeah, I will tell you the way, you know, data is important, right? You have to have strong data to be able to back, you know, why we’re asking for a 15 percent increase. But more importantly than that, it’s building that story behind the data. What are you doing from a quality standpoint, access of care, cost of care?

Mark Schroeder: What are you doing to help build? Why does that payer want you and need you in their network? So making sure that it. That you, we, when we come alongside a group, we don’t just look at the data. We truly get to understand who our groups are in current state. We also want to understand future state, which I think is super important when you’re looking at a negotiation.

Mark Schroeder: If you’re a growing and expanding practice and you want to. You want to come into a new specialty line or new service line that’ll be billing out new codes. You should [00:25:00] probably get on that sooner rather than later. So you’re negotiating those codes in advance, um, to get them to a fair price point. But, um, I think it’s super important in a relationship with the payer.

Mark Schroeder: One, You got to get to the right person at the payer. That’s, that’s, that’s one, one other tough task to, to try to get to is, is the right person on the payer side that’s going to listen to the story, right? You got to, you got to be talking to somebody at the payer who understands the importance of having a good quality provider in the network and not losing them.

 Mark, when you, when you look at the earnings reports from the commercial payers. You know, as a lay person, I’m sure your friends and family ask you like, Oh my gosh, printing money.

Erik Sunset: They’re making money hand over fist, fist these commercial payers. So now you’re negotiating on behalf of the practice or the facility or the group or whatever the case may be getting more money for the provider. Is that going to hurt me, the healthcare consumer? Am I going to have to pay more? [00:26:00] How does that dynamic work out?

Mark Schroeder: Yeah, it’s not something that we’ve seen trickle down. Right? I mean, again, there’s been record profits reported by, by, from the payer side, uh, for years, right? Um, it’s not something that negotiating a higher price point and moving 10 percent is trickling down to. Yeah,

Erik Sunset: right, right, right. And that kind of goes back to one of the earlier things that we talked about. There’s three legs on this stool. The patient, the provider, and the payer. And they all have to coexist. And that independent practice dynamic is so critical for, for healthcare in the U. S. I view it as a net benefit.

Erik Sunset: Uh, we’re very obviously not paying providers enough as a whole, like as the system, right? Whether it’s CMS, commercial payers, physicians are retiring in droves. I mean, we’re on the brink of a precipice that the mainstream news isn’t reporting on yet. They will be. Uh, there are [00:27:00] not enough primary care doctors or physicians of any specialty in the U.

Erik Sunset: S. today. What happens when you drive them all out over the next five years? Who’s going to provide your care? How long do you want to wait for a physical? It’s just insane.

Mark Schroeder: it’s a major issue. I mean, my, so my dad being an anesthesiologist, it’s how do you attract new physicians there? The pool is getting less and less. And, you know, if there’s nobody to pull from who’s going to provide the care again, I think we’re seeing physicians retire early. Uh, is it the burnout from from covid and the multiple shifts they had to pick up because they didn’t have the staff to do it probably plays into it.

Mark Schroeder: Um, but also all the different, um, all the different issues they’re having the administrative burdens that they’re having to deal with that. I think a lot of it can be. It’s on, it’s not needed. Um, a lot of it might be unnecessary, but, um, there’s, I think in many factors that we’re seeing here, but yeah, we need to [00:28:00] attract people into the medical field.

Mark Schroeder: Um, we can’t have, you know, I don’t, I don’t want to have to call my, my pediatrician and look when I can get my, get my kid in for a well, seven year well visit. And it’s like, well, four months scheduled out. Well, if we lose providers, it’s going to continue to go up, and that’s no good for anybody.

Erik Sunset: No, it’s not. That seven year well visit will be a seven and a half or eight year well visit. Eight year old child for a seven year well visit. Um, it’s unfolding in slow motion. I’ve asked a lot of guests that are way smarter than me on the show. If you had a magic wand, what would you do to fix it? And it’s a hundred little things building into this one big thing of wanting, uh, having an attraction to becoming a doctor, you know, entering into the field of medicine.

Erik Sunset: So if you have a magic wand to fix this problem, I’d love to know what it is.

Mark Schroeder: Yeah, I mean, again, I, you gotta, the, the, if you’re passionate about healthcare and providing the care, it’s, uh, you gotta get, get, get it out [00:29:00] there that, you know, whether you’re at a system or you’re at an independent practice. Um, I think it’s, some of it falls maybe back on the practice to get out there and, you know, do some marketing and get out in front of people and how do you attract ’em into healthcare, you know?

Mark Schroeder: ’cause there’s a lot of people that I think would be great in the medical field that just don’t end up going into the medical field. whether it’s because they don’t want to go to 12 years of school or whatever it might be. Um, we got to find ways that, that, you know, whether it’s shadowing or some programs that we might have to set up that I think might be important to help attract the right people into healthcare to continue to build, build up that pool.

Erik Sunset: Lord knows we need them. And one of the, one of the things you pointed out was around administrative tasks, the bureaucracy over the last 18 months or so, there’s been an explosion in AI products, solutions. Some, I think it’s debatable if they’re actually AI or not, but a lot of tools claim to be AI in healthcare.

Erik Sunset: [00:30:00] Um, we’re still very early for this AI craze in healthcare, but what are you seeing? Where do you think we’re going? Is it good or bad?

Mark Schroeder: Yeah, no, I think, I think used in the right way. It’s, it’s good. I think, um, again, early on, right. And, um, finding products and solutions. Um, in just around technologies for practices, I think it can really create some efficiencies that weren’t available before. Um, whether it’s around, you know, I’ve seen it in radiology where there’s some AI built into it, where it kind of pulls out some areas that, that a radiologist should focus on, on a case.

Mark Schroeder: So it reads cases quicker, it gives the radiologist an area to focus on. Now you’re still having. That, that touch from the radiologist to look at it, but there, I think, you know, that’s just one area that I’ve had a recent conversation on. There’s multiple other clinical efficiencies I think that AI can help with, but it needs to be done in the right way for sure.

Erik Sunset: Yeah, that’s, that’s kind of where I stand the right way. [00:31:00] There’s a lot of tools out there all of a sudden, some of them being LLMs embedded into EHRs, you know, as a, as a guy in health IT, I think that’s pretty cool that we’re doing that. But as a patient, and I’m certainly not an expert, but have, uh, kicked the tires quite a bit on these LLM products.

Erik Sunset: I kind of wonder what will take a provider less time, letting an LLM or some sort of generative, uh, text software create the documentation, which they didn’t have to review, or if you, does the provider just do the documentation yourself? Which one takes less time? I think it remains to be seen. We’ll see. Mark, we’ve covered a lot of ground. Is there anything that we glossed over or anything you want to call out here?

Mark Schroeder: No, I mean, I, I, I really enjoyed the conversation. I think, um, uh, the, the healthcare space, we’ve, we’ve got a lot of things going on and a lot of things happening. [00:32:00] And it’s going to take a team of people from multiple different areas, both payer side provider side. I think it’s going to take a lot of people on the technology side of it to work together to really get us back on track.

Erik Sunset: Well, I’ll tell you what, you, you handle the increased reimbursements, we’ll handle better physician workflows.

Mark Schroeder: That’s right. I love it.

Erik Sunset: All right. Well, before we go, we’ve got to be sure to plug your socials. Where can folks get in touch with you on social, your website? Where can people find more from you, Mark?

Mark Schroeder: Yeah, you can follow us on LinkedIn, Aroris health. Um, you find us there. We’re posting, you know, we try to post a lot of value added stuff to groups on what we’re seeing in the marketplace. Um, you can, you can go to Aroris health. com. We’ve got a lot of good case studies out there. Um, there’s a contact form.

Mark Schroeder: If you want to talk to me, you can fill it out and I’ll respond back to you and we can have a conversation, but, um, yeah, happy to happy to chat with anybody. If there’s any questions around anything [00:33:00] related to reimbursements, contracts, um, just overall making sure you’re getting paid what you should be getting paid.

Erik Sunset: Love it. We’ll definitely get links to all of those places and sites into the show notes. And on behalf of the entire DocBuddy team, I want to thank you for listening. Be sure you’re subscribed on Apple Pods, Spotify, and YouTube the newest episodes of the show. Until next time. I’m your host, Erik. Thank you again, Mark, for joining us.

Mark Schroeder: Yeah. Thanks for having me, Erik.

Erik Sunset: We’ll talk to you soon.

Mark Schroeder: See ya.