Maura Cash Shares Expertise on Technology in the ASC

Erik Sunset: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome back. I’m Erik Sunset, your host of the DocBuddy Journal, and we’re recording this episode today on Thursday, August 17th. We’ve got a really special guest today. We’ve got more cash. She is the VP of Clinical Strategies at HST Pathways, very long tenured HST Pathways resource as well.

Erik Sunset: So Maura, thanks for joining us and happy national ASC month.

Maura Cash: Thank you. Pleasure to be here.

Erik Sunset: Well, we’re excited to get your expertise on a number of fronts, so let’s just jump right into it. Um, obviously we’re discussing the ASC space here. You’re a technology expert. Let’s bring these two things together to, to get us going. You know, when you look at the broader healthcare marketplace, you know, it’s fairly slow to adopt technology in general, but ASCs have seemed to lag even a little bit more, uh, than you’d expect. Things are changing pretty rapidly. You see that you’ve got a great bird’s eye view there at H [00:01:00] S T. So the question to you is, why do you think ASCs have lagged in tech adoption and why is now the time that they’re starting to really embrace it?

Maura Cash: Well, the first answer is kind of easy cost. Um, so ASCs were left out of the initial Affordable Cares Act of 2210. Um, there were no mandates for EHRs in our space. No funding, uh, no subsidies. So, um, there was really no, uh, real push to use one. There was nothing that made everybody say, oh, we better hop on board.

Maura Cash: Right? Um, and ASCs have a notoriously tiny profit margin. So many of the centers just deferred switching from paper. They, they didn’t see an r o I, um, but. They didn’t really investigate it. Like you said, change is hard. Everybody likes [00:02:00] what they’re doing. Um, and they, they just didn’t see anything that was driving them towards making this change, especially the smaller, um, 1, 2, 3 or spaces.

Maura Cash: They, um, they just didn’t see the value in it. Right. But why is now the time? Well, the answer is data. So on one hand you have cost. On the other hand you have data. So for the last 12 years, hospitals and doctor’s offices have been providing that data, um, to, to the entities that requested federal state agencies.

Maura Cash: Um, there’s this shortage of data now for asc. ASCs are promoting ourselves as being the place to do more and more procedures, but there’s no data to show that we truly are great at it. We are lower cost, we have lower infection rates, we have lower occurrences, we [00:03:00] have quality staff. People have great outcomes, but we need to prove that, right?

Maura Cash: So we need to, uh, be able to give ourselves credit. And so the only way that we can show that to all, all payers, federal governments, registries, associations, all those people, is to have data to give them. And of course, the, the manual push, the manual process of collecting all that information is next to impossible,

Erik Sunset: Oh, there’s no way.

Maura Cash: So, um, as procedures continue to migrate to our space, uh, it only increases that time consuming process. So center staff are challenged, as it is, everybody’s short-staffed, and they can’t afford to not have these people in bedside care wasting their time [00:04:00] on gathering data manually. Right? So, so we’re suddenly seeing, um, A need as opposed to a mandate for it.

Erik Sunset: That, that’s a really interesting split. I’ll, I’ll be looking forward to the class research, uh, surveys that are coming out in the next five or six years with ASC technology versus practice-based technology. It’s a little bit of an aside and I kind of poke fun at my old world of the ambulatory e h r vendor that the best in class was kinda like a B minus grade.

Erik Sunset: Would’ve been really nice while I was in school to have that type of a curve, but it’s. It’s, it’s occurring to me now. What you just shared, the value prop that the ASC is promoting, which is, which is true, you know, the value chain is in alignment, better for patients, better for providers, better for payers. Um, that’s a rare thing in healthcare. But prove it. Show us, show us exactly where, and really, truly occurring real time to me. That, that if there’s [00:05:00] not any data to lean on, then how do you prove it?

Maura Cash: Yeah, you can’t prove a negative. Right? You have to have the information.

Erik Sunset: No doubts. So with the, the, the drive for more data to be able to substantiate some of these claims, I imagine there are some clinical, uh, quality reporting registries that ASCs are participating in. You obviously have to have the right technology

Erik Sunset: there. There’s no chance of submitting, uh, any data.

Erik Sunset: Going, going beyond sort of the, the basics there, how can the right technology and red e H R really, uh, deliver better clinical outcomes at the ASC?

Erik Sunset: What, what do you see with your clinical background?

Maura Cash: Yeah, that, that’s a great question, right? Because outcomes are affected by so many different factors, staffing, VA volume, time spent with patients QI programs, but. If, if you want to have better outcomes, you need to [00:06:00] be able to measure them. So if you don’t know if you’re having great outcomes, um, there’s, there’s no way, way to analyze the information, to make improvements, to make better outcomes.

Maura Cash: So, um, e EHRs ensure that. Orders are seen and acted upon in real time. Caregivers aren’t looking for what they need all over the place. Um, information that’s important to share with other providers can be shared real time with those other uses. Like if I in pre-op and I write down that you have an allergy and you as the anesthesia provider get a warning, Uh, uh, an alert that, hey, a, a new allergy’s been added.

Maura Cash: You might wanna look at that and, and so many things, [00:07:00] right? The, the C R N A says, oh, difficult in intubation, because of the information the anesthesiologist just provided in the record, they can go and make sure they have all the tools ready that they need. So information at the right time at the right place shared with all the care team providers can only improve the process and thereby improve the outcomes, right?

Maura Cash: So, so those kind of of second decisions that affect the care you’re getting today at the surgery center will affect. The outcomes that you have. Even little things like you’re interviewing the patient at the front end. Somebody in PACU now says, oh, this person has difficulty reading English. I better switch over these discharge instructions to this patient’s language.

Maura Cash: So [00:08:00] communication is suddenly instantaneous and that kind of process will have better outcomes. And EHRs now are not the EHRs of the original 10, 15, 20 years ago. And they were just coming out and everybody hated them. And they were so many clicks and so much process. Now they’re, they’re really easy to use, they’re intuitive, and they can provide clinical decision support.

Maura Cash: Um, so I like to tell people this when I was a baby nurse. The, um, the pd, uh, physician’s death desk reference, p d r was this big, it was a book this big, it was put out every year, and it was a compilation of every drug released to the United States. And then every month you got a little updated pamphlet.

Maura Cash: So somebody came in and they were [00:09:00] on a drug you’d never heard of. You have to look it up in the P d R. There’s no, there’s no, uh, Mr. Google. That’s how old I am. There’s no Mr. You can’t, you can’t look up anything, right? But now with an electronic health record, every home medicine you put in for that patient and every allergy you put in for that patient is checked automatically against every potential medication that you might give that patient at the surgery center for drug, drug and drug allergy interactions.

Maura Cash: So it’s not a remember game. It’s not a guessing game. It’s not a time consuming, wait, I have to look this up. I don’t know if I could give this to her. All of the, that clinical decision support is right there for you. It can check for fall risk for fired, risk for V t e risk. All those risks and assessments can be done and [00:10:00] that it can generate for you what all you need to do to make this patient’s outcome better.

Maura Cash: So staff can let let the software work harder for them so that they then have the time to care for their patients. So it definitely provides better clinical outcomes.

Erik Sunset: Ma, you, you brought something to mind that I find particularly interesting around the, the drug to drug, drug to allergy and drug to formulary checks that software can now do. Uh, I think most of them probably do at this point. So a snippet though, that personalized medicine where you send off your genome to be sequenced and then based on whatever the scientists say, you know, here are the drugs that’ll be most effective in these use cases.

Erik Sunset: And here are the, here’s the ones you wanna stay away from the, uh, the author. Uh, to put a bow on this, the author said that in 10 years we’re gonna look back and think we were all crazy, that not [00:11:00] every single man, woman, and child had personalized medicine available to them as an option. Do you have a take on that?

Erik Sunset: Do you agree or disagree?

Maura Cash: I, I agree. I think the strides main made with, um, with genetics is it, it’s been astronomical and it’s still in its infancy, so you have to say to yourself, Oh my God, if all of this, all of this that we’ve been talking about has changed in the 10 years, I, I can’t even imagine how amazing it’s going to be mo moving down the road.

Maura Cash: I mean, you know, I used to, I used to joke with people when they were like, can’t the can’t, the E M R just, um, Chart when I talk, can I just say, you know, Hey Alexa, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it [00:12:00] creates my op note. Well, that was 10 years ago, and now you’re like, uh, yeah, yeah, it

Erik Sunset: Yeah. Here, journal. The answer is for sure. Yes, absolutely.

Maura Cash: exactly. So, but the, the changes are astounding and they’re so, it, it makes me sad. A little bit sad that I’m towards the end of my career because knowing what I know now, to have to have this information at the start and be around for the next 45 years in nursing, I can’t, I can’t even imagine. It’s gonna be Star Trek.

Erik Sunset: Yeah, I think you’re right. Hit Accelerator with the, uh, The software’s like chat, G P T Personalized Medicine is getting cheaper and cheaper and faster and faster to provide as well. It seems the next four or five years will be transformative. It’ll be the internet 3.0 we thought we were getting a couple years [00:13:00] ago and it that didn’t end up even being close, but I

Maura Cash: No, but it’s a step. They’re all little steps that are leading us to this ai, um, future. You know? And wouldn’t it be nice to, to. Chart information on somebody and have, and have the system say, oh, this patient is at super high risk for blah, blah, blah. Don’t forget to maybe do this nursing care plan or, um, or this intervention.

Maura Cash: Uh, to me that’s, that’s not taking my skill. Although I’ve heard this argument. It’s not taking. My skill, my information, my input as the hands-on caregiver, it’s augmenting it. And I think that’s, that’s how we have to look at it. We can’t, we can’t say, the system that is, is going to make sure I don’t make any [00:14:00] mistakes, right?

Maura Cash: We, we hope that it will help eliminate as many as possible, but we also want you to use your judgment when the system is wrong. We want you to say no, not for this patient. So, um, that, that is the AI learning future curve that has to happen.

Erik Sunset: I’m with you, and this is kind of serendipitous that your HST colleague, Erica Palmer joined me in July to talk about just that AI in healthcare. And she shared a similar stance that as, um, and hopefully I’m not paraphrasing her incorrectly, but as a patient, I would want every tool available at my disposal to diagnose a tricky condition or to be sure

Erik Sunset: that I was getting the best plan possible as long. As a physician or the appropriate mid-levels there to oversee that plan, because we’re at a stage now where AI just isn’t infallible. It tries hard, but it’s not

Erik Sunset: always right.

Maura Cash: So, um, uh, uh, one of, one of the things I think [00:15:00] about is that, um, it’s, it’s such a simple, uh, example, but if, if the machine said you have to put. Um, anti lytic, uh, stockings on bilateral legs. You know that person is a below the knee amputee on one leg. You have to override the system, right, and you have to know not to, not to leave that system.

Maura Cash: That’s AI brain into telling you what to do when you have the patient in front of you.

Erik Sunset: Yeah. The wise words there.

Erik Sunset: Wise words there.

Maura Cash: It’s a simple example, but it’s like, oh, oh yeah.

Erik Sunset: I guess we only needed one of those socks.

Maura Cash: Right.

Erik Sunset: so to, to, to bring us back, uh, onto our, our main point of discussion here, Maura. So obviously, uh, when you wanna measure [00:16:00] outcomes, you need to have data. How do you get better outcomes? Track and trend, right? What on the, what about on the, uh, the PM side of the house, the business side of the house?

Erik Sunset: How can the rights technology, whether that’s primarily the practice management system working in conjunction with the E H R or even just the E H R, how can that deliver a better financial outcome for the facility?

Maura Cash: That’s an excellent question, right? Because, um, as we started out talking about they have to see an r o i, if there’s no return on this investment, um, why make the change and at the surgery center return on investment? Well, definitely outcomes oriented. Is really financially motivated. So you have to improve the bottom line as the business office to to make the value of your E H R, your E M R worth it.

Maura Cash: And in order [00:17:00] for that to happen, you have to have a clinical E H R that intimately engages. With your business software. So for example, on paper, the case is finished. Everybody finished all the parts of the chart. You’re waiting on the doctor’s operative note. It sits in his box. He has to go dictate it.

Maura Cash: Somewhere that has to get done. He has to read and review it. It has to get back on the chart. Then the chart has to go to the coders, and then the coders have to do their business. Good software allows you. To complete all of that information by the end of the surgery and think about the difference to the bottom line.

Maura Cash: If you can bill that case tomorrow, do a cataract in the morning, bill in the afternoon, do any case you could think of, and by the end of the day, you have every bit of information you need [00:18:00] to code it and post it and that speed. Turnaround will absolutely improve the bottom line. Then you also have the national shortage of materials.

Maura Cash: Materials management is a nightmare now, so imagine you’re using, um, your electronic health record and the staff are using the supply. Entering that supply at the point of use in their normal flow of charting, and it’s deleted from inventory magically, like at the time of use. So I used this in my pre-op.

Maura Cash: I put the four e, k, the three, E, K, G, I put the pulse ox, I put uh, their blue hat on. I put their stuff in a belongings bag, and now they’re in the or. Those charges for pre-op are already gone. They’re [00:19:00] already in there, already done. So now your materials management has a bird’s eye view of what’s needed, when it’s needed by everybody as needed.

Maura Cash: And reversely, what am I ordering too much of that these people don’t seem to be using. They know immediately because the people responsible for using it don’t have to go back and double entry or fill out a sheet that then has to be entered by somebody else. It’s happening real time. So that is enormously useful.

Maura Cash: It also gives you immediate case costing. So if you can’t track and report. On all aspects of your a n C operations. You can’t analyze the data and have data that you trust that will assist you in growing services. Im profitability and cash flow and materials management. So all aspects of that practice of that, uh, [00:20:00] center software, of the business end of it, um, they improve exponentially.

Maura Cash: By having a quality electronic health record that is giving them real time data and real time things to analyze for future growth.

Erik Sunset: That that resonates with me. I mean, we’ve said it before, if you’re not measuring it, you can’t really do anything other than what you’re always doing with it. You can’t improve. And if it gets worse, you wouldn’t even know.

Erik Sunset: Um, To, to go a little bit deeper there with all the efficiencies, especially with the, the supply chain issues that are still rippling through the world because of Covid.

Erik Sunset: Uh, among other reasons, there’s still a, a huge labor issue as well. Uh, some of the anecdotes I hear from clients, from, from centers and from practices like we’ve got a really competitive. HR package to hire people, but it just isn’t happening. We can’t attract any candidates. We don’t, we’re not even turning people down.

Erik Sunset: We’re just not getting any applicants at [00:21:00] all. I would imagine the right software introduces some efficiencies where, you know, you may feel like you’re staffed a little lean, but maybe not understaffed. Right. You’re still getting everything done that needs to, right. Yeah.

Maura Cash: Yeah. Yeah. Um, surgery centers have been leaned forever. Right. But you know, if we, if we break it down, like surgeon, uh, efficiencies, so volume is money for them, right? We, we know that. And time at the center. Um, it’s, it’s expensive to waste, but surgeons on P world, they may delay the paperwork so that they don’t slow down their day.

Maura Cash: But if we make software that’s intuitive, that allows rapid completion at the time of surgery, They’ll never be behind charting again. They never have to come back and lock themselves in the chart room with somebody who’s plowing through 60 charts [00:22:00] from last week going through it. Um, you give them back some of their time, so it increases their work-life balance.

Maura Cash: Uh, it decreases their burnout. And they know this. All of the new doctors coming out have been using electronic records for years now. Good ones, bad ones, ones people have learned to make better, but it, it’s like using your phone for your banking and now somebody’s saying, no, no, we decided not to do that anymore.

Maura Cash: Every deposit and every withdrawal you have to go inside the bank for there would be a revolt,

Erik Sunset: Absolutely. I’d be first in line.

Maura Cash: So it’s the same concept for these physicians, these new providers who have been pouring out for the last 10 years who’ve never used a paper chart. [00:23:00] And you’re telling ’em, no, no, sorry, you have to go back in the bank to complete everything.

Maura Cash: Give up your Saturday to catch up on your paperwork. I, I can’t even imagine how you would recruit some of these, um, younger top gun. Uh, providers who will make you tons of money and tons of volume and, um, they’re gonna look at your antiquated system and be like, Hmm, no thanks.

Erik Sunset: Yeah, and hard to blame

Erik Sunset: in my

Maura Cash: And then, and staff, uh, your nursing staff, your front office staff, your back office staff, everybody is in that same boat because it’s harder to recruit people and to retain them because Target’s paying 25 bucks an hour.

Maura Cash: What tools do you have in place to help your staff feel valued and valuable and spend their time on the part of their job they love and not the part of the job that they hate, which is reentering data someone else has [00:24:00] already entered once, so the, the paper record, um, When you think about it, somebody had to compile that record.

Maura Cash: Somebody had to then hand hand it off With that patient, how many hands did it touch? Right? The registra, the person who put it together, registration person, the pre-op nurse, the inop nurse, the anesthesia provider, the physician, the post-op nurse, the PACU nurse, the pre-op call nurse, the post-op call nurse, and then somebody had to go through there and reorganize all those pieces back together.

Maura Cash: Mark every single field. That had missing data and that had to make that round to all those people again. So the the wasted time, the wasted effort goes away. It goes away, right? You have now a system that knows every field that’s required. It could generate a report or task list or whatever your system could do for you, and you can track it.[00:25:00]

Maura Cash: Not have to chase that chart all over your surgery center to make sure it’s complete. And then once all that data’s in it back in the paper world, they had to scan it or store it or keep it forever in some cases. Um, or what seems like forever. Um, all of those people have other jobs. The real work of caring for the patients of caring for the center of caring, for the finances, of caring for the materials management.

Maura Cash: So all of that gets better. And many studies show there was a, a recent one out by the Institute of Health and Wellness, uh, but it shows that people feel people are more satisfied with their jobs when they feel like they have meaningful work. So that. Is if you take away that, that nonsense sort of [00:26:00] paper world must do filler work and you give them meaningful work, you won’t have to worry about retaining your staff.

Maura Cash: And people will, by word of mouth, want to come and work for you.

Erik Sunset: And that’s, that’s huge. Um, this, you know, we could spend the rest of the day discussing this topic, but there’s, there’s a cataclysm on the horizon where providers, both doctors and mid-levels are retiring early. They’re, they’re, these students are choosing not to enter medicine. Uh, we are going to be running out of physicians and all sorts, all types of clinical staff in the next five years unless something gives, and, you know, looking at the broader market, you know, going more macro than just ASCs, the technology and use today is what’s driving so much of this discontent, this heartburn, the burnout.

Erik Sunset: Uh, there’s just, there’s a better, there’s a better way. And I’m not so convinced. Today. You know, it kind of depends on which way the wind blows, but I’m not so convinced that it’s [00:27:00] entirely the fault of the vendors at large. You know, looking more towards the acute care and the practice side of things.

Erik Sunset: It’s a different animal in the asc, it’s a different

Erik Sunset: type of software. So they’re, those, those guys are kind of more in the crosshairs than the ASC side of things. Um, is. When you look at optimizing for workflow, there’s too much hybrid workflow where you’re going back and forth from paper to digital, which might as well not be digital at all at that point.

Erik Sunset: Even in some of the, as you so delicately put some of the bad softwares, I would pick a different word, like waste of time and money softwares, which there’s still some of those out

Erik Sunset: there, but

Maura Cash: Yeah. Yeah.

Erik Sunset: it, you just, you have to do something to give people meaningful work and paperwork, isn’t it? Is the

Erik Sunset: point I.

Maura Cash: That’s, that’s the bottom line. Uh, we have to document the care we gave give, um, absolutely. But, um, but it’s a time sucker and I, I would rather have Alexa [00:28:00] do my charting and read it over for accuracy, uh, while I spend it. Actual time with my patient, making sure they understand how to take care of themselves.

Erik Sunset: Yeah, no, no self-inflicted wounds on,

Erik Sunset: uh, paperwork. That’s all.

Maura Cash: right,

Erik Sunset: So we’re coming down the, the home stretch here. Mora looking ahead to the end of the year. We’re almost in the home stretch of 2023, which is kind of

Erik Sunset: a shocker. They’re not going any slower for me. Uh, but coming down the end of 2023, looking ahead to 2024, what do you think is the most important thing for facilities to either do or be thinking about? You know, as we’re kind of staring down the, the next month being September in two weeks.

Maura Cash: Yeah, well, you know what’s interesting is ASCs are finalizing their next year budget. So, uh, very timely question, but, um, I believe. Granted, I’m a little biased, but I believe, [00:29:00] uh, EMRs, EHRs, they’re no longer a nice to have. Uh, a recent survey by ASCA showed that the percentage of centers using an, uh, an E M R increased from last year.

Maura Cash: It was 50% this year at 60%. So I think all centers, large and small will see that return on investment. Now, if they wait. They’ll be less attractive to staff and provider recruits that we just talked about. Right. They’ll, their, um, center won’t have the tools it needs to thrive. Well, I don’t think the federal government will ever mandate the use of EMRs.

Maura Cash: I do think that the tipping point is upon us. So if a center hasn’t started investigating software options, They’re already behind. I would begin by examining your [00:30:00] current chart journey, just like I talked about, right? Uh, what features you must have, um, what you could do with your process before you go to an e H R to streamline it.

Maura Cash: Most places already are, I get that. What features are must haves. Talk to your peers, get demos from all the vendors. Go on a few site visits, see it in real time. Action. Um, this is a huge decision and layout of money that we talked about, right? Um, but I always say the most expensive e m R that you buy is the second one.

Erik Sunset: Are we at?

Maura Cash: So, so start now. Dive into it as soon as you’re able. Get yourself a checklist together, those kind of starting places. Get me an Excel spreadsheet. These are the things I want it to be able to do. Get some data, get some information from the [00:31:00] vendors out there who is actually doing the stuff that you need it to do.

Maura Cash: And they’re not all the same, although they’re all similar, right? So you have to find the one that works best for you and for your chart journey. How can you let the fewest people have to touch it? And get the most trustful accurate data back to analyze and to use for every single decision you make forward.

Maura Cash: And, um, I know our company just put out, um, profit forecasting, which is a great tool for ASCs to use. Um, in the past you wouldn’t know if a case lost you money until it actually loses you money. So, um, uh, we need all the tools we can to make sure that we’re taking the right cases in for our bottom line and for the patient outcomes that we talked about.

Maura Cash: So my advice right now is to start the [00:32:00] process if you haven’t already. ’cause you really don’t want to fall that behind.

Erik Sunset: What else is there to say? Technology has moved so quickly through the rest of the world. Some of healthcare has a little catching up to do, but now, now really is the time. Now is the time for a number of reasons. You need the efficiencies.

Maura Cash: Take the dive.

Erik Sunset: Yep. Especially when, uh, private equity gets involved in the operation of these facilities.

Erik Sunset: They, you have to be able to measure, you have to

Erik Sunset: be able to show results and without, without data, you’re gonna be grasping at straws as they say.

Maura Cash: I mean a, anybody would rather say, instead of saying, um, well, daca, are you sure that this is the right place that you should do my surgery? Yep, I think it is. I would rather them be able to say, yes, it absolutely is. Would you like to see their infection rate? Would you like to see their outcomes? Would you like to see it shouldn’t be.[00:33:00]

Maura Cash: I think so, right? You should have the information to back you up. You can’t do that without the technology.

Erik Sunset: So true. Love it. Well, Moura, unless there’s any other parting thoughts, where can listeners of the doc journal find you? Are you on any social medias? Where can they look you up?

Maura Cash: I am on LinkedIn. I am also on the new threads, although haven’t quite wrapped my head around how that works, but, um, yeah. Um, I am, I am, uh, Definitely very active on LinkedIn and post all kinds of great articles, information, and, um, the HST website has, um, has blogs and articles and other things that I’ve put out there.

Erik Sunset: Well, we’re big fans of HST here at DocBuddy, so if I’m not mistaken, that URL is hst pathways.com.

Erik Sunset: Give a look there. Be sure you’re following both HST and DocBuddy [00:34:00] on LinkedIn as well. And if I’m not mistaken, Maura, you’re a pretty frequent guest on this week in Surgery Centers, which is hsts podcast.

Maura Cash: I am, I am yap. I, uh, I love to do, um, that kind of, uh, education. Just to let people know, and by the way, the feeling is mutual. Uh, HST likes doc, doc buddies just as much as you like us,

Erik Sunset: Well, I, I feel, uh, I, I feel like a special guest ’cause I’ve gotten to be on your podcast and like we already said, we had on a ago.

Maura Cash: and technology that talks to each other and makes really good friends is the best kind.

Erik Sunset: Absolutely, and I hope you’ll humor me. I can plug an upcoming webinar that if you’d like to see DocBuddy op notes. And this is gonna be a, a DocBuddy op note webinar geared particularly towards our integration with HST Pathways. We’ll have a link, uh, in the show notes. We’ll also have the [00:35:00] post on LinkedIn.

Erik Sunset: That webinar will run. A week from today at 11:30 AM Eastern. So if there’s anybody that needs an invite, um, either check the DocBuddy LinkedIn or email me eric@docbuddy.com and more. If you’re interested, I’ll kick one over for you too. So you’ve got the option at least.

Maura Cash: Yeah, I’d love to watch it.

Erik Sunset: And with that, um, I want to thank you again for joining us. Maura, you’re an excellent guest. Thank you for the knowledge. Uh,

Maura Cash: So much for having me.

Erik Sunset: On behalf DocBuddy team, thanks for listening. We will catch you on the next episode of the DocBuddy journal.

Maura Cash: Great.