Jeff Pfaff: Technology, Culture & the Future of ASC Operations

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Erik Sunset: Hello and welcome back. I’m Erik Sunset, your host of the DocBuddy Journal, and today I’m really excited to introduce Jeff Pfaff, uh, as our guest. Jeff is the Senior Director of Business Operations with Inova Health Systems, ASC division. Very busy guy. Jeff. Thanks for making a little time for the DocBuddy Journal today.

Jeff Pfaff: Thanks for having me on, Erik. Appreciate it.

Erik Sunset: It’s our pleasure, and there’s a really good chance if you’re plugged into the ASC uh, news space, you’ll be familiar with Jeff’s name. Uh, he is a regular contributor to Becker’s and other outlets. But on the off chance our listeners are not already acquainted with you, Jeff, give him a little background on yourself and on Inova.

Jeff Pfaff: Okay, so yeah, so like you said, I’m Senior Director of business operations for Inova Health Systems. Inova is the, the, the major health system in the Northern Virginia here.

Jeff Pfaff: Area right outside of dc. So we have, uh, we have five centers. Uh, we’re building our six [00:01:00] right now, our ASC. Um, I have, um, a graduate degree in, um, I have a, well, I have an undergrad in, in financial management. I have MBA with focus on leadership. Um, I have multiple certifications in leadership. I think the one that’s gonna, uh, that’s most relevant to our discussion here is one I took at, um, it was a Harvard one.

Jeff Pfaff: But, um, I started getting into healthcare, uh, because just in a random situation, I met a physician who was, um, starting his practice was having an issue, uh, because, you know, he wasn’t, he wasn’t an operations guy. He was a, you know, a physician. He was focused on patient care.

Jeff Pfaff: So I jo, so he ultimately hired me to help him, um, scale his operation.

Jeff Pfaff: Um, it became very successful. He is very successful, um, in the market right now

Jeff Pfaff: and then I got into Inova in asc truthfully, and I, I didn’t know anything about ASCs at that time. Um, I know our health system was, uh, had one as SC, it was run by, uh, a [00:02:00] management company, but they wanted to run it on their own. It was, it was doing marginally. Um, it wasn’t very successful. It was okay. It was breaking even, you know, but they wanted to grow within the market, the Northern Virginia, DC market.

Jeff Pfaff: Um, um, they hired me. Uh, like I said, I, I brought in some people that knew a lot about ASCs, um, and, uh, whether they were clinical or business. Um, on the business side. Um, we started growing. Um, first we changed a lot of things at that one ASC. Um. We changed a lot of things to the one ASC to make sure first we can become successful in that one.

Jeff Pfaff: Uh, and a lot of that was with patient care. A lot of it was with physician experience. A lot of it was patient experience. Um, what, what did people value, um, in an ASC? Um, it worked out well, you know, we grew that one, um. And our, our, you know, the, the physicians were extremely happy. Dividends, dividends went, uh, went [00:03:00] up, uh, dramatically for them.

Jeff Pfaff: So the, the he health system was making, uh, pretty good money with that once. So we started, we like, you know, they wanted to expand it. So that’s why I was brought in. Uh, we started opening more.

Jeff Pfaff: So we opened a second, you know, we opened a second one, uh, then a third and a fourth and a fifth. We’re about to open our sixth. Uh, like I said, we do about 40,000 cases a year. Uh, about 40 to 45. Um, they do anywhere from 800 to 1200 cases a month. Most of them, they’re all multi specialty centers. Um, you know, so we have a good, uh, we have our biggest center has five rooms.

Jeff Pfaff: Five, five ORs, five procedure rooms. I think our smallest has two ORs, two procedure rooms, and they do about. Even the smallest one does almost 700 cases. It’s it’s tight. Um, they don’t have a lot of room to grow that one. So we’re actually, that one’s going into renovation soon, uh, because we’re like, we’re maxed out.

Jeff Pfaff: Uh, so we’re gonna add a, a couple more ORs, a couple more procedure [00:04:00] rooms.

Jeff Pfaff: The, the sixth one will be specifically an all orthopedic center.

Erik Sunset: Sure. Jeff, one of the, one of the things I wanna key in on here is ear. The state of the state of technology overall for surgery centers, and that could mean anything, we’ll leave it open-ended, but really what amounts to like a, uh, having a digital workflow new for a lot of surgery centers, and unfortunately it kind of stems from COVID where, you know, you run up to COVID, things are okay.

Erik Sunset: You’re, you’re staffed lean, but you’re staffed appropriately for the most part. through the pandemic and just across all of healthcare, you can’t make a hire. So retaining staff, leading with that culture of collaboration and adaptability, but now in this post COVID world for surgery centers, uh. The realization that we’re seeing our clients have and just the industry at large have, is that you really have to have technology. There’s no more throwing FTEs at problems. Uh, that was never the right thing to do, but when it was cheap or labor [00:05:00] was affordable and plentiful, you could,

Jeff Pfaff: Right.

Erik Sunset: how are you viewing this industry industry-wide shift to digital and do you think

Jeff Pfaff: Yes,

Erik Sunset: recognize.

Jeff Pfaff: Yeah. So post COVID. Yeah, it is interesting ’cause um, with COVID, you know, we have a lot of people working remotely now, whether the pre-op, uh, nurses making their phone calls, um, to the business office, um. Everybody, not everybody, but we do, we have a, we have a, you know, a, um, a structure where technology allows us, um, to have people offsite in different states.

Jeff Pfaff: Even, um, now, uh, like when an employee quits or because they’re moving, they don’t actually, or resigns. We, we can keep them on now. And I think communication and collaboration is key with that. Like, you’re sitting in, you know, these, these, these applications just like this. We’re discussing, um, you don’t have to be on site with any, pretty much anything.

Jeff Pfaff: Uh, clinical staff obviously will be on site, front [00:06:00] desk and things like that, but, um, you know, the technology will make it easier. PE re patients are registering at home and coming in, so they’re spend, uh, you know, a minute. In the registration booth instead of 15 minutes. Um, you know, so little things like that.

Jeff Pfaff: And that’s all due because of COVID keeping people separated. Um, they’re already, they’re already registered prior. They’ve already already made their payments prior. Um, and, uh, we communicate a lot. Virtually with each other at the centers. Uh, I think 90% of my day is on Zoom calls, um, talking across all our five ASCs in our parent company.

Jeff Pfaff: Uh, I think that’s what my job has morphed into just doing Zoom calls and meetings all day. Uh, but, uh, yeah, I think technology and, and just has enhanced the workflow too. Um. Um, because you know, like I said, we have, even the clinical, some of the clinical staff is at home doing the calls and, and the follow up calls.

Jeff Pfaff: They don’t have to be on site. So,

Erik Sunset: Sure.

Jeff Pfaff: it, it’s, it’s, it is and it’s it, [00:07:00] and it keeps developing. The one thing and, and that I see. And, and our environment is by the time you’re, you realize that you can use some sort of technology or you identify there’s a gap in your process that you, you wanna find a technology or an application or, or whatever.

Jeff Pfaff: Um, and you identify it and you like it and you implement it and, you know, ’cause that could take up to a year to, to, in this process that. By the time you’re, you, you start using it on a regular basis, that technology is already behind. Um, and, and there’s other thing, there’s other out there, and that company’s already developing, you know, a modification to it to keep up with.

Jeff Pfaff: So you’re constantly, uh, you’re, it feels like you’re constantly evol. Um. Having to evolve, even with that application you did purchase to keep up or with, uh, with the market because that company is worried that you’re gonna jump off of them to another, to another per, you know, [00:08:00] um, company. So I think your, your, your, your, your staff is constantly, um, uh, uh, training.

Jeff Pfaff: With these, with these applications to, to make sure they’re, you’re using them, um, efficiently and to the best of, um, how you should be using them. So, um, I think that that’s, that’s the tricky part with this.

Erik Sunset: Yeah, I mean, you, you at the, you know, better than anybody, you have to do more with less, uh, headcount than you, than you’ve ever had. And it doesn’t seem like that’s going to change for a, a number of reasons, many of which I can’t articulate. It just, you know, the writings on the wall, staffing levels aren’t gonna bounce back.

Erik Sunset: The cost of labor isn’t gonna ever go down. You know, just as with everything. Prices don’t generally

Jeff Pfaff: Correct.

Erik Sunset: over, over time.

Jeff Pfaff: Yeah. And that’s, that’s the new thing, right? So the cost of hiring people is, uh, is, is outrageous Now. Salaries are outrageous. Now, uh, our margins are smaller. So tech, we’re using technology to do a lot of these, uh, repetitive tasks over and over again, [00:09:00] um, to, to minimize that. Um, unfortunately, you know, uh, with, for certain, because it’s not that technology takes away from people’s positions.

Jeff Pfaff: I think if you don’t know how to use the technology, it does. Uh, ’cause we’re looking for people who, who know how to use, um, the applications or ar, ai or whatever have you. Um, it’s not really taking their position, it’s just taking away, um, tasks. And if you don’t know how to do those tasks with using technology, I think that’s when that’s when people become trouble.

Erik Sunset: Definitely if you get lost in the sauce in, in software, if you have an employee that says, Hey, I, I do this on Post-it notes and my system is foolproof, it never breaks and everything is, uh, gonna be hunky door if you just let me do it how I want to do it. But that comes back to culture. The rest of the team is using a digital workflow and you’ve got one outlier on Post-it notes.

Erik Sunset: You know, you need to address that or

Jeff Pfaff: Yeah.

Erik Sunset: needs. Address that.

Jeff Pfaff: Yeah, and if there’s some resistance to it, most people will be, well, I wouldn’t [00:10:00] say most, but some people will be resistant to it. Some people will be, you know, they’ll jump on it. But, um, I think some people will end up leaving because they are resistant to technology. So.

Erik Sunset: For the, for the industry at large, the surgery center. Uh, uh, uh, and its overall perspective on technology. I think it, I think you could say it’s fairly, it’s fairly neutral. I think there’s some folks that would say, yeah, technology helps me. Others that would say, it doesn’t really hurt me, but I’m not sure that it helps me. One of the things that’s interesting coming from the, the vendor side of this and, and obviously we’re, we’re a little bit biased, but I’m trying to give a neutral statement here. Consumer behavior is dictated either by, um, wanting something to make a game, so improve efficiency, make more money, things of that nature. But the more powerful driver for consumer behavior and human behavior is to avoid pain. And pain in the business sense, obviously is cost. So what would be your words of wisdom, Jeff, to the administrator of your, your average main street surgery center where they [00:11:00] know they have a gap that could be filled by technology. But they’re evaluating technology on, on things like soft costs, and by that I mean you don’t get an invoice for the, the price of labor, even though that is a cost incurred. That seems to be a mental barrier for a lot of your peers that, Hey, we know we could be doing better. But I don’t get an invoice for this.

Erik Sunset: So if I make this software, investment in software and this digital workflow, I will have ROI, but I’m not technically reducing my costs. Is that the right to look at it or what would be your, your words wisdom there?

Jeff Pfaff: I mean, I think there is a lot of that. I mean, the bottom line is we’re trying to make, uh, it’s pa it’s about patient care, right? And then, then it’s the workflows. How can we make them as easy as possible for our staff, uh, to make their day? Uh. Simple. Um, and basically that’s what it is. So how do, how do we, how do we value that?

Jeff Pfaff: [00:12:00] So it’s about value to showing them value. So, like I said before, you know, administrators don’t have the time. They’re not gonna sit through a hundred demos a day find, trying to find something. They just, they’re focused on day-to-day operations. They’re trying to get through the day and doing their 50 cases and working with the physicians and their teams.

Jeff Pfaff: They don’t have time to sit through these demos and identify plus. Changing. Changing your workflows. To them is a hassle. Um, it really is. Like I, so now you’re gonna take, ’cause you’re gonna need some staff, clinical staff, you’re gonna need business staff, whatever it is to sit through demos, to go through an implementation.

Jeff Pfaff: Have a team, internal team. Um, they don’t have time in their day to do this. Um, so you’re gonna get a lot of resistance from the people who are on site working day to day. It’s, if it’s in their mind, if it’s working fine now, they’re not gonna change it because they know there’s gonna be a cost. They know there’s gonna be a time, time cost on this as well.

Jeff Pfaff: [00:13:00] Um, so what we do at our centers, we have, we have a person who, who works for me. Um, he is, he came from the IT side. Um. What he does is I specifically hired him to identify applications, um, and any technologies that can help our workflow, he kind of filters those out for us. And then we do, then we’ll sit down with the management team at each center and say, Hey, this, this is.

Jeff Pfaff: This is what it can do. This is the value it can provide. This is, you know, we can reduce hours, we can get people outta here quicker. Uh, we can do more cases, you know, um, the implementation is this. We’ll, we have to show them value, right? If they can’t see the soft, the value of the soft, then it’s not gonna fly.

Jeff Pfaff: Why is this gonna, you know, why is it, why should I use this? Why, why, why should we waste our time and money on this? Um, so that’s what he specifically does and he does a great job with this. And it’s, uh. Um, it, it, it, he does find a lot of resistance from this because, like I said, [00:14:00] a lot of people on the, on the, on the day to day, you know, and there could be some of it where this is a small percentage of it, it could be maybe it’s gonna take somebody’s job.

Jeff Pfaff: Um, and they. They are. So the, so the resistance comes from that too, but mostly it’s just time, money, uh, effort. Do we really wanna put into effort on this when it’s running fine now? Um, you know, we could run it. A lot smoother, a lot more efficiently. Um, you know, I think if you, if you can put a money value on it, that’s, that’s even better.

Jeff Pfaff: Um, but I think, um, uh, you know, the, the, if you could definitely show ’em the work, um, life balance, um, how it enhances, I think, I think that also could, could help them, um, in decision. Um, but yeah, there’s a lot of aspects to that. That, um, it, it’s, it’s, it’s a challenge. Um, and we go through it. We go through it all [00:15:00] the time with almost every vendor we have.

Jeff Pfaff: ’cause there’s always a vendor contacting us who will say they can do it better than our previous vendor, and some of them can. Um, but it is also, do you have the resources on site and with your staff to make, to implement this, this technology So that, that’s a challenge as well.

Erik Sunset: That’s a, that’s your, your, uh, your leadership and your thoughts on culture, your, your ethos on culture shining through, because that’s a, that’s a review feedback loop that no matter how well resourced the center is or a health system is. They don’t all do that. There isn’t always that bird’s eye view. Um, and you don’t necessarily need a specialized role, although what a, uh, what a luxury for, for folks like you, Jeff, that have it to, to see that carried through. Um, this actually dovetails perfectly with a, a contribution you made to a recent Becker’s ASC piece. We’ll get a link to this in the show notes. The piece was titled How Six Healthcare Strategic Leaders Are Taught, uh, fostering [00:16:00] Operational Innovation. I’m gonna quote you really quickly and give you a chance to expand. Jeff shared that innovation thrives where leadership listens. Technology support strategy, collaboration is easy, and every initiative is tied to measurable performance improvement for the folks in the audience. That might sound sort of like a pan of sale, like, oh yeah, of course you would want that, uh uh, of, of course you do, but that can be a reality and I, it doesn’t take that much more work than what you’re already doing. you think?

Jeff Pfaff: Yeah, I mean, I truly believe this. I mean, in, like you said, innovation starts to, it needs to be part of the, part of the company culture, right? Um, leadership needs to develop a style that encourages rewarded, rewards, ideas, um. And it needs to be, like I said, it needs to be, you need to have open collaboration.

Jeff Pfaff: You need to have this communication structure where it’s not, not only communication, collaboration is easy, but the structure is that allows people, platforms to make that contribution to the company. Right. Um, which is a challenge ’cause people [00:17:00] are busy. How do, how do I recommend this, this new, uh, this is an issue and I think this can fix it.

Jeff Pfaff: How, how, how do you get that message out to your leaders? Um, you have to provide opportunities, whether it’s, um, you have a generalized e like meetings every week you have a one-on-one meetings with them. It doesn’t really matter what it is. Uh, you could use social platforms to, to get that from your employees.

Jeff Pfaff: But, um, so it’s really just a leaders need to develop this philosophy that supports new systems, um, and, and to improve, you know, operational performance. And, and, and that comes in many ways. Whatever you’re considering, your metrics are operational performance. It could be financial, uh, it could be clinically, uh, related.

Jeff Pfaff: It could be community related. It doesn’t really matter what your metrics are. Uh, what’s important to your own company? ’cause I think everybody has. Uh, different values on what, what’s important to them. Um, but it has to be embedded in that. And, and the, the organization needs to be able to [00:18:00] be adaptable and flexible and to grow with the current environments.

Jeff Pfaff: And, and the way to do that is to make sure, um, you’re looking at, um, uh, your structure and how innovation and technology is used and, um. It’s always on employee’s minds and they’re rewarded for it as well. Um, and not just the ones you use, but it’s just rewarded for people thinking constantly. How, how can we make our, our company, you know, uh, more efficient Or how can we, how, how can we make our, you know, patient care better or physicians?

Jeff Pfaff: Satisfaction or whatever physician, the physician experience, better employee. It doesn’t really matter. Like I said, what, what your metrics are. What do you think su, what constitutes success in your eyes? ’cause everybody’s gonna have something different, but using technology and providing, uh. Platforms for that, for the, for the feedback, um, is essential.

Jeff Pfaff: So I mean, and uh, we try to do that here. It’s [00:19:00] not always easy, uh, because you have a lot going on at once. And like I said, trying to, trying to throw a bunch of things at our, our at administrators or um, our managers. Um, they’re gonna get tired of saying, why are you always, you know, why, why are you always throwing these applications at us?

Jeff Pfaff: Or, you know, I have time to look at these demos. But, um, ’cause I, I don’t ever push, we, I will never push an application on the people who actually work at the center. I want their input. One, if I don’t have their input and I don’t have their, their, their, um. Their point of view, they’ll never be engaged in a, in an implementation.

Jeff Pfaff: And if you have, if you have the leader of that center not engaged, then nobody’s gonna be engaged if there’s pushback from them. So they have to be, they have to be, uh, in step with what I’m thinking or, or project managers thinking. Um, and if they’re not, then I will, like I said, I will never push it on them unless, unless it’s something that is essential for the company, uh, [00:20:00] viability.

Jeff Pfaff: So.

Erik Sunset: Those, those are wise words. And uh, to that point, I know there will be at least some in the audience thinking. Wow. That sounds great. I really wish I could do that. But, and that, that’s gonna be followed, uh, by some of along the lines of aligning physicians. I don’t want to talk to my physicians about this.

Erik Sunset: I don’t want to solicit their feedback on operational decisions that don’t impact them. There’s all kinds of dynamics out there. Some, some of them are very good and very healthy. Obviously, if you’ve got a. Uh, a culture of fostering innovation. The surgeons and physicians are gonna be a part of that, but

Jeff Pfaff: Effect.

Erik Sunset: the case. Uh,

Jeff Pfaff: Yeah.

Erik Sunset: Jeff, who’s

Jeff Pfaff: No, you’re exactly right, Erik. I mean, that hits it on the head. ’cause we are running into an issue right now. So, um, you, you have to have key stakeholders and some of ’em are, are main physicians, right? So, um, that will push back on certain applica technologies or whatever. If they don’t see the benefit or value, your, your goal is to [00:21:00] show them the value because believe it or not, they have more power and influence in your centers.

Jeff Pfaff: Um. Then, you know, we would, we would ultimately like them to have, right? So I mean, if, if, if they’re vocal about something, not liking something that’s gonna spread to other physicians. Physicians listen to physicians, right. Um, and, and ultimately, and it’s the way it works is if they’re one of our top producers and, you know, they, they’re bringing in the revenue and their volumes are high.

Jeff Pfaff: Um. It’s tough if they’re not on board, right? It’s tough to sell this and if they don’t like it, you know, ’cause there’s a lot of dynamics there. Will they leave, will they go to another center if we, if we force this down their throat? So yeah. So you have to get key stakeholders involved first. Before you do anything, you have to get that engagement from them.

Jeff Pfaff: If they like it, they will push it. Um, and uh, and the way to do that is to sit ’em down and show ’em, uh, the value, not only the value [00:22:00] to the organization, but the value to them. Um, and if you can do that, then they’re, you’re gonna have a huge ally on, on your side. Um, and it comes with the administrator, the medical key physicians.

Jeff Pfaff: You know, there, there’s certain things, certain people that have that power or are it, they don’t even need to be a actual. Leader in their title, they can just be a leader, uh, amongst the organization and their role. I don’t care. You have natural leaders regardless, um, that people, people tend to listen to at every level in an organization.

Jeff Pfaff: So, but, but there’s a lot of the physician one is, is a, is. It’s, it is interesting ’cause like I said, we have, we just recently had this issue, um, and, um, we normally don’t have it, so it, so we struggled how to handle it. Um. Yeah, he was not engaged in something. We were, they were not engaged in something we were doing.

Jeff Pfaff: So, uh, we have put a stock to that for right now, and we’ll revisit [00:23:00] that and we will try to work with them on maybe an alternative, um, using the technology or, or showing them how they can use it better, uh, more effectively and how it’ll benefit the, the center. But, um, yeah, that, that is a, um, that is an obstacle we have to overcome and I’m, I’m sure most people will have to do that at some point.

Erik Sunset: Yeah. That’s a healthy feedback loop though. One final thought on, on culture and and leadership is that from and speaking with your peers, Jeff, that lead surgery centers real prominent folks that speak, uh, nationally, it’s never us and them, it’s, it’s we. But if you’re starting in a place where it’s maybe a little skewed towards us and them. You’re gonna have to work, you’re gonna have to dig it outta the dirt to make it, uh, we or us or together. That’s not a change that you’re gonna affect today. Um, it’s something like that old mantra, respect is earned not given. And I’m not implying that there’s a lack of respect in that dynamic. It is just something that doesn’t happen overnight.

Erik Sunset: What do you [00:24:00] think?

Jeff Pfaff: I agree, and I think you’re, like you said, it’s, it’s a we mentality. Um, if, if you’re just focused on, um, the way it’s gonna benefit you, uh, as, as, as a person running the center, it’s not gonna go over well. Everything is, is a, we. Um, you do right? Um, and it’s, uh, it, it, and that also comes down to way you lead too, right?

Jeff Pfaff: If somebody does something, um. You know, their performance is outstanding. Uh, you, you recognize them and you’re, you know, you say, um, you’ve done a great job. Right? But if there’s an issue, it’s always, we, we got, we have to fix this problem. You never throw it on somebody like that. You throw it on the whole everybody.

Jeff Pfaff: Um, and I, I, I just think that gets people, um, less defensive. But it also applies to, like we were just talking about, the, the type of language you use when you’re talking to everybody, whether it’s your management team. Um, your leaders, um, and to the lowest level, you know, whatever front desk person. [00:25:00] Um, it, it’s, it’s, it, it is, we, we have to, we have to implement this and this is why, and this is why it’ll benefit.

Jeff Pfaff: Uh, so I think that that is important there. Okay.

Erik Sunset: Jeff is a, a fairly longtime user in his organization, fairly longtime user of our DocBuddy op note solution. Uh, Jeff would love it if you’d share a little bit of, uh, your experience with, with our team, with the platform.

Jeff Pfaff: Yeah, so I don’t use it on a day-to-day, but I have feedback on this in meetings. Um, so we have used DocBuddy at, uh, a majority of our centers. Um, the feedback is the medical records team love it. Um, because, um, as far as the application it’s gonna, and when a, when a physician, you know, dictates, um, it’s gonna let them know they missed something, uh, they can go back right then.

Jeff Pfaff: Correct it. They don’t have to send it in. It’s not like tra traditional transcriptions where they send it in, there’s a mistake, comes back, they fix it, and you, it’s, it’s not, it’s, it’s, everything’s corrected at that point in time. [00:26:00] It’s signed, it flows directly into the, into the patient’s chart immediately.

Jeff Pfaff: There’s no lag time, there’s no downtime with that. Um, the auditing process from their medical records was like, that basically has been eliminated. Um. Because of, because of the way the, the application, uh, works you through the process, uh, the physician through the process of dictating. So that part has been, has been excellent.

Jeff Pfaff: Um, and also getting, getting, um. Some physicians to dictate at some of our centers, um, you know, we have policies and you know, that they have to dictate within a certain amount of time and blah, blah, blah. But again, we have some stubborn physicians who will, uh, just not. Do it. Uh, so we have to, we’ll have to hunt them down, get, you know, get some, um, get ’em to do it.

Jeff Pfaff: Um, and that takes time and that takes effort. Um, be before the end of the month so, you know, our business office from, um, you know, king code and, you know, drop claims and things like that. So it has speed up, it has sped up the, [00:27:00] the revenue cycle a little bit with, um, because we don’t have, um, we don’t really have that issue as much anymore.

Jeff Pfaff: Um, DocBuddy has taken that away. So those are two. Positives that have been great, um, with using the application from what I’ve gotten back from our business office managers when I’ve, when I’ve spoken with them all, um, as far as DocBuddy itself, um, and this is. This is something I, I have gotten to know, uh, um, your, your people.

Jeff Pfaff: Um, and I met them at conferences, but I’ve gotten to know them when they came on site. So your people came on site. Um, trained the physicians. I’ve never seen, no matter what industry it is, uh, or what position I’ve held or whatever, through other companies or through this company and all the applications we have used or we use, um, or have used in the past, I’ve never seen a more professional.

Jeff Pfaff: Um, more engaged, uh, group than your group? Believe it or not, [00:28:00] I mean, they, they were excellent with the physicians. They were excellent, excellent. With the staff. They’re always available. Um, they’re extremely personable. They’re, they’re, they’re extremely, um, on top of things. They’re very detail oriented. Um, and, uh, and I’m not just saying that.

Jeff Pfaff: I mean, here’s the thing, and I, and I know I’m on your podcast, but I think, um. I, I really just think that I have never seen a more professional group than, um, than your, your, than your people. So, um. So I, I appreciate that. I appreciate them a lot. So, um, it’s probably the best customer support I’ve seen in, in any application we’ve, we’ve, uh, been, we’ve used.

Jeff Pfaff: Um, and they’re, they’re meticulous. They’re very meticulous in the way they go about it. Uh, and they’re very responsive and available to us if needed. Not that we’ve needed ’em very often, but when we have, they literally call the physician. So I’ll say, Hey, we have a, we had like a small hiccup with this [00:29:00] or whatever from doctor.

Jeff Pfaff: They, they’ll just call the physician directly. It’s taken care of, and the physicians appreciate that. So, uh, they’ll, we’ll, you know, I’ll see ’em, they’ll be like, Hey, that guy had called me. Uh, it’s like, yeah, yeah, I, sorry about that. Uh, you know, you’re supposed to go through me or who somebody else. And he’s like, no, no, I, I appreciate him calling me personally.

Jeff Pfaff: You know, I was like, all, all right, great. Um. So on. You know, so on the, on the side note, the physicians speak very highly of your team. I speak very highly of your team. Um, and, uh, like I said, I, I don’t think we’ve ever run into more, um, personable and professional team and, uh, and, uh, if I have to give us a little shout out, get one out to Rob and Noah if, and I, because it, it is appreciated.

Erik Sunset: Yeah, that is, uh, uh, incredibly high praise. Thanks for, thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience on, uh, on DocBuddy and our, and our team there. I know we’re, we’re coming towards the end of our time today, but I, before we, uh, before we wrap up, I have got to get your thoughts on [00:30:00] AI and healthcare. That’s, that’s really open-ended. ’cause that could mean just about anything. We actually were talking about this before recording that, you know, what does AI actually mean right now? So what are you seeing? What’s out there? What’s exciting? What do you know you wanna stay away from? If anything?

Jeff Pfaff: So a lot of it’s new. So I, I do like some, some of these conferences I will discuss, um, some of these AI applications, um, and what they can do for us. We’re starting to get into, believe it or not, uh, automated phone calls. Um, for our, um, our nurses, our pre-assessment nurses, our post-op calls, um, we’re also starting getting, getting into a little bit of AI with our, uh, our appeals for claims, uh, with payers.

Jeff Pfaff: Um, so we’re working on that right now. Um, we’ve, we’ve done a lot of, um. We’ve done some site visits to other centers that have used it. Um, and like I had told you before, you have to be careful [00:31:00] ’cause some people are way overselling this. Um, like it is, um, like it’s going to handle all their issues and stuff.

Jeff Pfaff: But, um, we’ve had a lot of feedback from a lot of centers that have already implemented these, these, these, um. These applications and this technology and ai and some of it can be tricky. Some of it is not as advertised. So you have to do your, you have to do your due diligence with this to make sure you’re getting what you need or you’re gonna, you’re gonna run into a ton of issues.

Jeff Pfaff: Um, but, uh, we’re, I think we’re, we’re, we’re, we’re narrowing it down to some, um, that have looked really positive. And we’ve had some site visits to these centers, uh, other centers which have been really helpful to us. Um. Because we wanna see, I wanna see it. We usually, typically, I want my staff to see it being used day to day and not just a demo.

Jeff Pfaff: Uh, and these other centers, and which is, which has been really nice, have let us come on site, watch them, watch the application being worked. So you gotta be careful with that, what’s being sold to [00:32:00] you. Um, I’ve heard some horror stories about this, but, um, ’cause you’re spending a lot of time and money on this, right?

Jeff Pfaff: Uh, and you just, you wanna make sure it works the way you want it to work. Um. But there, the, the, the technology is pretty cool. I, I think it’s gonna get to the point where it’s gonna do a lot of the repetitive, uh, task for you, um, which is good. But you’re still gonna need somebody who, who’s gonna monitor.

Jeff Pfaff: Just like the pre-assessment nurses, those phone calls, we’ve been using them. We demoed it, uh, with one company. We demoed it with one company we did not like, uh, we demoed it with a couple other ones. One we, we settled on, we we’re gonna start implementing, implementing that soon. Uh, you just have to be careful and make sure people are following up on the back end and reading transcripts and monitoring it.

Jeff Pfaff: They can do spot audits on it. Um, ’cause you wanna make sure that it’s. It’s, um, asking and identifying the questions, um, that go, you know, if there’s an issue goes into the chart. So p so the physicians and anesthesiologists can see any concerns. But, um, it’s [00:33:00] exciting. You know, I, I think it’s an exciting time for us.

Jeff Pfaff: Um, it’s growing so quickly and we’re using it in so many ways now that you, like I said, you just need to be careful, um, because it’s not 10 years in and we, we know, we know what, you know what it’s, what it’s gonna provide for us. We just don’t know. So.

Erik Sunset: Uh, to, to your point as a, as a shopper for, for ai, you know, the, the words of wisdom I would offer would be be sure that it’s a viable business. First of all. You know, whoever you’re evaluating, no matter what they say, no matter how good it looks, to your point, if you can see it. a production environment and not just a demo, great, even better, but be sure that it’s a viable business. The other key points is who is supplying the human in the loop? There are too many lawyers involved in healthcare and love. Our healthcare lawyers. Make no mistake, love ’em all. Uh, there’s too many lawyers to be talking about removing any human oversight from any output that any AI generates at this stage of the game.

Erik Sunset: That may change, although I wouldn’t bet on it, uh,

Jeff Pfaff: Right.

Erik Sunset: the [00:34:00] compliance concerns and. Uh, sort of legal ramifications of removing the human in the loop, but who’s supplying it? There’s some vendors that’ll give you the expertise as a part of what you’re buying. You get a, a human being to be the human in the loop.

Jeff Pfaff: So we are.

Erik Sunset: you have to supply your own, and neither is right or wrong. It just, it depends on what you’re doing. Um, Jeff, does anything come to mind for you, for humans in the loop with AI in healthcare? Are you seeing any really good examples of that or any, uh, cautionary tales you wanna share with the

Jeff Pfaff: Uh, not really. Just in general terms. And actually I’ve, I think I saw you speak on this once you and uh, um, at, at down in Nashville once, uh, and we had, we had broached this a little. You, you guys had broached this a little bit. Like, and I, I had said this earlier, that the human aspect of this is that people, there is some resistance to it ’cause people think it’s gonna take their position.

Jeff Pfaff: And I don’t, I don’t really think that’s true in, in the overall general sense. I think that at some, I, I, I, I think that will be the case. Um. For some [00:35:00] specific task. Uh, but I, I think it’s more of. Um, if you don’t know how to use it or you’re not, you’re not familiar with it or you’re scared of it, that’s when it will be effect.

Jeff Pfaff: That’s when it’s gonna be detrimental to you and your position. Um, because like, like these business office staff that I’ve, I’ve met with, um, that want, wanna start using it, they’re, they’re engaged in it. And I think it’s the ones that aren’t gonna be engaged. There are the clin or the nurses that don’t want to touch it.

Jeff Pfaff: Um, you know, they, they can make, I don’t know how many phone calls an hour, but these things will make. These things will make your whole day, your, all your phone calls in 15 minutes. Um, so it’s the ones that don’t want to use it. And then I think that’s when it’s become a, uh, the human element actually will come into play a little bit, but, um, yeah, like I said before, it’s exciting and there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of, um, um.

Jeff Pfaff: There’s a lot of potential for this to really make your surgery centers more efficient. So you have to factor in cost as well. Um, some of the cost of it, but [00:36:00] most of it right now ’cause there’s so many competing vendors out there, that’s why, you know, you gotta, like I said, you gotta be careful which ones, if somebody’s selling you something extremely, um.

Jeff Pfaff: That’s under everybody else. You gotta be, you gotta, you gotta wonder why. So, um, but the, yeah, so the margins, it should increase your margins. Um, if you, if fin if financially that’s what you, you know, that’s one, it is one of your goals. But, um, um, yeah, it’s, uh, it’s exciting and we’re, we’re looking into a lot of them right now, um, to see how they can help us.

Jeff Pfaff: Uh, be more efficient, uh, you know, increase patient care, uh, the physician experience and, and our staff’s workflow. So

Erik Sunset: That’s a great way to bring us full circle. So, Jeff,

Jeff Pfaff: I.

Erik Sunset: we, uh, bang the gavel here, where can folks find you online? Where can they learn more about your work and where can folks see you? I, I have a, I’ve got a, a. Hypothesis that folks who probably find you on the trade show circuit, uh, that’s about to begin.

Erik Sunset: Maybe ask, uh, so we’re working [00:37:00] folks. Connect with you, Jeff.

Jeff Pfaff: Yeah, I don’t really have a, a set agenda each year where I go, uh, what I do. Um, I do go to asca. I think I’ve gone last few years, but I don’t typ, I don’t always go to asca. Uh, I will go, I usually go to a couple Becker. Sometimes I’ll talk, sometimes I won’t. Sometimes, like I, I. We had spoke before. Sometimes I’ll go to, um, to certain conferences that I, um, that are outside my realm.

Jeff Pfaff: Sometimes I’ll just go to technology conferences outside that, just have that deal with healthcare in general. Not specific to ASCs. I wanna see what’s out there. Uh, those are always interesting ’cause you get the latest and greatest of, uh, any application or equipment or whatever people are using. It’s, it’s pretty neat to watch, um, what’s evolving in, in the field.

Jeff Pfaff: Um, so yeah, you’ll see me at some of these, you know, some of these things. Um, you can send my email out as much as you want. Um, social media. I am on LinkedIn. Um, so you, you can contact me that way. Actually, I have, I’ve had a lot of [00:38:00] people contact me recently on LinkedIn. Um, um. To ask. I have done some sort of, I have done leadership consulting in the past, um, um, for, for startup companies.

Jeff Pfaff: Um, and just for some advice, A lot of times I don’t even charge people, uh, for my time. I just, I’ll have meetings with them and their staff. I’ve come to their centers and talked to them, uh, to their, to their executive team or the management team, uh, just about, uh, um, ideas, concepts. Um, and they, they can use to help, uh, get their employees more engaged.

Jeff Pfaff: So, uh, but yeah, I mean, anybody can reach out to me anytime they want. Uh, I’m, I’m always open and available to, uh, to help, uh, help, uh, anybody in the ASC industry as needed.

Erik Sunset: That’s huge. We’ll, we’ll get links to, uh, all those destinations into the show notes. And truly, this is a community that has to have each other’s back. Uh, listeners know we fly the flag for asca. Uh, support their work that they’re doing. Jeff, in your backyard, in DC uh, as well as many [00:39:00] states, uh, ASC organizations.

Erik Sunset: We gotta look after each other ’cause this is an important industry for AmErikan healthcare.

Jeff Pfaff: And I’ll be at ASCA this year since it is in my backyard. It’s, uh, right down the street about, you know, 10 miles away. So, uh, I will definitely be there, so, which is nice.

Erik Sunset: Awesome. Well, it’s not too late to get your tickets to asco. We’ll get a link to that in the show notes too. And on behalf of the entire DocBuddy team, I wanna thank you for listening. Be sure you’re subscribed on Apple Pod, Spotify and YouTube so you always get the newest episodes of the show. And until next time, I’m your host Erik.

Erik Sunset: Thank you for listening.