Fostering Patient Trust via Price Transparency w/ Christie Callahan

Erik Sunset: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome back. I’m Erik Sunset, your host of the DocBuddy journal. This is episode 49. And today we’re joined by a guest who loves working in healthcare because there is never a shortage of complex problems to solve. Our guest today is Christie Callahan. Christie is chief operating officer at Arrive Health, which is a healthcare tech company that makes it easier for patients to access affordable medications.

Erik Sunset: Christie’s focus there is on new product development, operations, and growth. And before Arrive Health, she was the VP of Strategy and Innovation for Member Services at CVS Health and a consultant at Bain Company. Christie, thanks for joining us.

Christie Callahan: Thanks for having me.

Erik Sunset: It’s our pleasure. Really excited to to have you on the show and get you to share some of your expertise with us. Before we do though, I bet our audience would love to get to know you a little bit better than that short intro. I mean, tell us a little bit about the health care road you’ve traveled and maybe [00:01:00] some of the problems you’ve enjoyed solving along the way.

Christie Callahan: Sure. Absolutely. I let’s take it all the way back. I’m an engineer. I studied engineering in school. And I always wanted, really, I liked making things simpler, right? How do you make these complex things, these complex processes simpler? How do you make them work better? I worked in a paper plant and with Bains, a whole bunch of different industries and and ended up in health care.

Christie Callahan: And I’m really excited that I have because I think, you know, there are two things. One, there’s no shortage of really complex things that need to be made simpler. And to the outcome is helping people be healthier. And I think, you know, without our health, we don’t have anything. And so if that can be our mission and purpose and, you know, the outcome of of making those complex problems better then that’s something worth doing every day.

Erik Sunset: It sounds like you’re very much the person for the job. As you said, there’s no shortage [00:02:00] of problems to solve in health care and a little simplicity I think would go a long way for us.

Christie Callahan: That’s right. I think so too.

Erik Sunset: And our plan today is to cover a pretty wide ranging set of topics. So I think we should just jump in and I think we got to start with one of the hottest topics out there.

Erik Sunset: Maybe second only to AI at this point in the the new cycle. I mean, that’s the consumerization of healthcare and really how healthcare organizations can help foster trust in that provider patient relationship. So what, what are you seeing as sort of a, a best practice there?

Christie Callahan: Yeah, it’s a good question. And, you know, when we step back, what we’re really trying to say is How can we help patients be empowered? And empowered as consumers, right? Because accessing healthcare is not just about having a doctor and, you know, knowing your condition and knowing what needs to be done.

Christie Callahan: It’s also about being able to [00:03:00] pay for it, being able to go pick it up, being able to go have, you know, the procedure completed and what we think about every day at Arrive Health is how can. How can we help that purchasing decision be a purchasing decision in addition to A care decision, right? And if you think about, gosh, if you think about getting a prescription, right, it is probably the only time in your life as a consumer that somebody else tells you what to buy.

Christie Callahan: You don’t get to pick your, I’ll, I’ll use my paper plant. You don’t get to pick your toilet paper, you know, your Charmin, right? Your doctor’s telling you what to buy and you have no idea how much it’s going to cost until you show up at the counter and they ring you out. And that is, you know, that is the crux of, or really maybe a good, illustration of [00:04:00] why consumerism has been so hard in health care and why patients have felt so disconnected from their ability to get care and their ability to pay for that care and how that impacts their total health.

Christie Callahan: You know, it’s interesting. We ran a survey and 64 percent of respondents said they would delay care if they didn’t know that they could afford it. And I think that that’s You know, not surprising. I think something that like anecdotally we all appreciate, but you know, how can we help patients know so that they then make the best choice?

Christie Callahan: And we think about that as starting with doctors, because at the end of the day, our providers are key to that decision making, are key to that care journey, and consumerism in healthcare doesn’t happen if providers aren’t brought along as well.

Erik Sunset: We’re, you’re touching on an important aspect of it because on the, on the [00:05:00] patient side, like truly the consumer side, it’s easy to tell why it matters. If they’re unable to afford it, they’re not going to adhere to their medication, they may skip out on the visit entirely. And we, this is a little bit tongue in cheek.

Erik Sunset: We mentioned AI at the top of the show that certain health systems are beginning to charge for messages into providers through a portal that then some large language model will reply to as a way to sort of throttle back the utilization of that as a resource. So it’s, it’s obvious that as a, on the patient side, you need to know how much your medication will cost before you get to your pharmacy.

Erik Sunset: But what are some of the implications on the provider side or on the health care organization side for treating that patient as a consumer?

Christie Callahan: Yeah, exactly. And well, I think it’s both treating that patient as a consumer and being a part of the choice, right? If we say, you know, hey, patient, you should have drug X and I come back and say, well, I can’t afford drug X. [00:06:00] Then the process is, okay, go call your health plan, see what’s covered, you know, I come back with maybe one drug and say, this is covered, can I take this?

Christie Callahan: Where if we can get in the hands of docs, the class of drugs, the relative coverage of those drugs, so that in the office you can have a conversation and you can say, Hey, I really. I like to prescribe this drug for these reasons. It’s 200 a month. Is that something, is that tenable for you, right? Is that something that you can afford?

Christie Callahan: And maybe my answer is no, but it also doesn’t need to be 0, right? The 0 drug has some side effects that I don’t want to deal with. And we can land in the middle on a drug that’s. Both better for me, something that I can adhere to but in a cost range where I’m going to pick it up and I’m going to pick it up every month as opposed to every other month or maybe once a quarter when I have the money.

Christie Callahan: And so I think, you know, it is, how can [00:07:00] we. you know, low effort way. Doctors don’t need any more decisions, right? There’s so much information, but in a low effort way, how can we facilitate a conversation, a conversation between that doctor and that patient about whether or not you’re going to take this med?

Christie Callahan: I’m prescribing it. Are you going to take it? Right? I mean, that, that is the goal based on cost. Right. And as a part of that, we also can share, you know, there’s a prior auth that’s going to be required. I just want you to know it’s going to be, you know, a few days before you’re going to be able to pick up this med, that kind of stuff as well.

Erik Sunset: I would imagine when that conversation is happening about, hey, I want to prescribe you this, it’s going to cost X amount. I would imagine that if that conversation happens from the point of care and not, Hey doc, I went to the pharmacy and there’s no way either through that patient portal message or calling into the office, wasting more time on administrative tasks for the provider.

Erik Sunset: I would imagine that’s way more valuable to [00:08:00] have that data and that information right there as a diagnosis and the prescription is being written.

Christie Callahan: That’s right. And I think to your point, you get two things, right? One, you’ve got a healthy patient, somebody that feels taken care of and feels empowered to go get their med. And two, You don’t have the distraction and the cost of a call back into the office, kind of disjointed conversations in between visits, right?

Christie Callahan: And, and not the ultimately, probably not even the right outcome that you want for that patient.

Erik Sunset: Yeah, well, I want to earmark that that cost of labor in ways that automation can kind of either reduce that cost or avoid it altogether, you know, through the lens of the ongoing staffing catastrophe that health care is going through,

Erik Sunset: but to even have that that information available off of the patient’s formula for a given drug. What has to happen between all of the different softwares and all of the different intermediaries and the insurance carrier and the provider and their facility? I [00:09:00] mean, that’s a lot of orchestration that has to take place to end up with, you know, as a consumer, as a lay person, you know, stepping outside of our health I.

Erik Sunset: T. You know, boots and roots here. How come you can’t just tell me how much it costs? Why is it so hard?

Christie Callahan: It’s so hard. Let’s start with the doctor, right? Why is it so hard for the doctor? If you think about the patients that any given doctor sees, The majority have a unique plan. They, you know, they work for different companies. They have different employee benefits. They have different plans, even if they have the same health plan, right?

Christie Callahan: Let’s say they’re all United or all Aetna, which. Also doesn’t happen, but let’s pretend, right. They’ve got different versions of that plan. Based on, you know, what plan was right for them as well as what plans their employer selected and, and all of those things, whether or not they’re on Medicare or Medicaid and, and all the other programs as well.

Christie Callahan: And so if you just start at a base [00:10:00] level, right. That doctor’s maybe seeing 50 different insurance plans for 50 different patients, and there’s no way, there’s no way somebody knows, Alright, this drug is going to be covered, this one’s not going to be covered, this one has a high copay, this one doesn’t.

Christie Callahan: It’s not just a brand generic problem. I think a lot of times we like to boil it down to say, Oh, I’ll just take the generic and that solves the problem. It’s not just a brand generic problem, right? It’s a formulary problem. And so that’s part one. How do we connect all those different insurance systems to the DAC?

Christie Callahan: That’s the first problem that we solve. And then the second is. Providers use a lot of systems too, right? They’re not all working out of the same the same system to do their work, to log your medical records, to share that information with one another. And so you also need to, to build some scale within the systems that the doctors are using as well.

Christie Callahan: And then I think the last piece that’s really [00:11:00] fascinating is the way doctors And, and not even just doctors, right? Anybody writing a prescription. The way a prescription is written, and the way a claim is run by your insurance company, take some love. There’s a lot of finessing that needs to happen for, you know, an output prescription to turn into something that can actually go through the claims system and come out as a price.

Christie Callahan: And, you know, some of that happens. Most of that happens at our pharmacies today. But as somebody trying to deliver those answers pre pharmacy, you know, there is a fair amount of translation in how we talk about drugs, how we talk about quantities. I mean, if you think about, you get a prescription and it says, It’s for an inhaler, and it says two puffs a day.

Christie Callahan: What does two puffs a day mean if I’m trying to figure out what the price of this medication is going to be? So we bring all that together with really with a focus on [00:12:00] consistency, right? How do we make sure that when doctors see the information, it doesn’t matter what plan it came from, it doesn’t matter how they wrote the prescription, they’re seeing the price that you’re going to see at the pharmacy counter, and they’re understanding if there are any barriers.

Erik Sunset: Well, as you’re, as you’re going through that blueprint of how do you get the answer to what should be a simple question. It’s obviously not simple. There’s so many different layers that to that have to be navigated to end up with that response. I just go back to one of the first things we said introducing you. Love to solve a complex challenge. That’s pretty darn near the top of the list. And then I would imagine the cherry on top for for you, Kristi would be to make that information available within a provider’s electronic health record, that there may be writing that prescription in as just a matter of course of their day.

Christie Callahan: Yeah, that’s exactly right. So the way they we we don’t believe in more apps or more portals. We really [00:13:00] believe in, yeah, how can we meet those providers where they’re at and then the tools that they’re using. And so to your point, as as a provider writes that prescription, gets ready to sign it they’re going to see our information and they’re going to see it for free.

Christie Callahan: As we talked about earlier, right, during the visit at a point in time when they can talk to you about it and when they can build trust with their patients and help you to have an experience that’s maybe a little bit more like buying something online.

Erik Sunset: Yeah, well, again, the the benefits to the patient are obvious and apparent, but for the folks at home, you may not, you may not know that bad software. Is driving physicians out of the practice of medicine. They’re keeping medical students from applying to med school and becoming doctors and providers and entering healthcare at all. I would love your perspective, Christie, that if you’re, if you’re able to provide that data inside of the software, that the provider, that mid level, that nurse, whoever is already going to be [00:14:00] using that. At least from our perspective, our point of view as an organization here at Daquity, that delights providers.

Erik Sunset: That gives them something that should be so easy. We live in a smartphone world, Amazon prime, buy it now with one click and it’s at my house tomorrow. Medicine’s not like that though. It could be, but it takes a lot

Christie Callahan: Could be.

Erik Sunset: towards that end to get there. So can you speak to that just a little bit?

Christie Callahan: Yeah, let me give you, let me tell you a story from one of our doctors and then talk a little bit about the stats. So We have a pediatrician who’s Who loves to talk to us about the tool because he uses it all the time And a lot of what he prescribes for is asthma Or you know other other needs for inhaled air Corticosteroids.

Christie Callahan: So I think albuterol, right? Maybe somebody has croup. Maybe they truly do have, have asthma. And it’s a [00:15:00] class where the administrative, administration type matters, right? The discus might be covered. The inhaler might be covered. A pack of inhalers might be covered. Mail order might be important because it’s a chronic disease day, right?

Christie Callahan: All these things that the Health plan is thinking about trying to you know, get you the best negotiated rates, but that for providers overwhelming, right? I’m trying to help a kid and I’m trying to help a kid get the medication they need to be healthy and, and live their life as a kid. Right. And so he loves to tell us a story of, you know, he prescribed, he wrote his normal inhaler that he prefers.

Christie Callahan: And he turns his computer around, shows the mom the drug, and he tells her all the reasons why he likes this one, but it’s 200 a month. And he says, but listen, there’s one that’s fully covered. Here’s what you gotta watch out for. It’s not perfect, but it’s gonna help your [00:16:00] son. And she starts crying in his office, because She can’t afford 200 a month.

Christie Callahan: It’s not gonna happen. And she wants nothing more than to help her child. And I think, you know, as you think about why people choose medicine, they choose medicine to have that impact, right? To help people care for their kids, to help people care for their loved ones. And I think we gotta get back to that.

Christie Callahan: We gotta get back to doctors that feel like they can have that kind of impact. And the reality is Cost is a part of it. Cost is a big part of it. People like we said at the top, if, if I can’t afford it, I’m not going to use it. And that like, it is not just the tools. It is also, how do I become disenchanted as a doctor?

Christie Callahan: Because I’m not seeing better outcomes in my patients. I’m seeing people back in because they can’t afford their medication and they’re not adherent. And and so I think it’s. You’re [00:17:00] absolutely right. The tools have to be simple, and that can’t be a breaking point for our providers, but we also have to help, help them get people healthy again.

Christie Callahan: And I think there’s a lot of, there’s a lot more to it than just good tools maybe is the right way to say

Erik Sunset: That’s a powerful story. I mean, that’s like you say, that’s what medicine is all about.

Christie Callahan: Yeah.

Erik Sunset: Well, and changing gears a little bit, obviously that’s a way to delight a provider, you know, you don’t want to have patients and their parents break down in tears, even if they are tears of joy on too frequent of a basis.

Erik Sunset: At least that’s how my, how I’m wired. But on, on the other end of this, if you’re avoiding that call from CVS, the line at CVS, and I have unfortunately had to endure that line more this winter than I have at some time, you know, you’re standing there 25 minutes, 30 minutes, and you’re wondering what on earth is taking so long. A lot of it is bickering with the person at the register on the patient’s behalf. That’s [00:18:00] too much. And what are they supposed to do? It’s yes or no. You’re going to buy it or not. If you don’t want it and you want something else, better call your doctor. So they do. And oftentimes you get to hear that exchange

Erik Sunset: if you’re waiting long enough in CVS.

Erik Sunset: So if you can avoid that, call back to the doctor. Hey, doc, this is crazy. I can’t pay 200 a month and you should have known that. What does that, that automation and the automation isn’t the best way to put it, but that availability of information from the point of care that this is how much these drugs cost. What does that do for your cost of labor, for your staffing? There’s a lot to unpack here. I know I’m just kind of throwing it at you, but when you can’t even make a good hire anywhere, and what if you didn’t have to, I guess is what I’m

Christie Callahan: That’s right. That’s exactly right. So our most engaged health systems are seeing about a 30 percent switch rate generally on medications. So if you think about how often, you know, you’re getting calls back, your, your patients are experiencing [00:19:00] some level of not the best outcome, right? Paying too much 30 percent of the time they’re switching medications and.

Christie Callahan: The other important, and I think even more impactful to your point, from a cost of doing business perspective is 33 percent of the time, and at our most engaged sites, up to 40 percent of the time, they’re avoiding prior auth altogether. Obviously that, that depends on the class, right? In some classes you’re going to be stuck with a prior auth no matter what.

Christie Callahan: But in a lot of in a lot of drug classes, the health plans use prior authorization to, As a mechanism to enforce the formulary, to tell you, to steer you towards the drugs that are lower cost, the ones that they prefer, the ones that they have best rights on. So, if you can avoid prior authorization 40 percent of the time you are Avoiding labor and delays to care that are, that are huge.

Christie Callahan: So our providers [00:20:00] typically estimate that a PA takes 25 minutes of, of time to complete. But that doesn’t count the, you know, I send off this script and as soon as it hits the pharmacy, I get two faxes a day, two phone calls a day. I’m getting calls from the patient as well, telling me to, Get this PA done, right, so that I can dispense the medication.

Christie Callahan: And so if you think just about administrative burden broadly, right? And to your point, how do I want the staff in my clinic spending their time getting rid of those prior Ross is huge. And letting them, you know, focus on on patient care and everything else that’s on their list.

Erik Sunset: Yeah, and just, I think most of our listeners will be really familiar with prior auths, but for those who are maybe fortunate enough to not be familiar with them, I remember when electronic prior auths were new, were introduced, and it was supposed to be this great big time savings. [00:21:00] And it did save some time off of paper based and faxing prior outs, but it’s still painful.

Erik Sunset: Can you just give us a run through a refresher on what, what all a prior off takes?

Christie Callahan: Yeah, I can. And and we’re working, like we do work in prior as well. So let me Let me set the journey at current state and then maybe also set a little bit of what are we doing to fix it. So I’m a patient and I encounter a prior authorization, right? That means my doctor wrote a prescription and my health plan wants to know Why I need that med, they want to check it.

Christie Callahan: Let’s use, you know what, a great example is Ozempic, right? Our GLP 1s are trending right now. Everybody wants Ozempic for weight loss. Your plan only wants to pay if you’re using it for diabetes, right? They don’t, weight loss might be good for you. but you got to pay if you’re using it for weight loss. So they’re putting in prior auth.

Christie Callahan: What does that mean? That means that your [00:22:00] doctor has to answer typically five questions in more complex, you know therapies, up to 30 questions about your health. Often it’s, you know, What’s your weight? What are your diagnoses? What’s your, have you taken this medication before? What’s your drug history?

Christie Callahan: Why do you need this medication? And that sounds simple. It is, you know, relatively simple, but it’s totally disconnected from the flow of care, right? I write a script, goes out the door, two hours later I’m getting a fax or a phone call back telling me that there was a prior auth required. Telling me that I need to go take action.

Christie Callahan: I log into a separate portal, I put in the patient information, try to get back the right question set for that patient and that drug, I finally get the question set, I have to go into my records, look up the patient’s record, make sure I get all their [00:23:00] information right to answer those questions, and then I wait.

Christie Callahan: I wait for a decision from the plan. And I checked back into that portal to see what the answer is. Right. Eventually I get a decision. And then, you know, everybody goes on their way. And so what we’re trying to do is two things, you know, we know, like I was saying earlier, we know when that doctor is writing the prescription, right when they’re writing it, if there’s going to be a prior auth.

Christie Callahan: And so as soon as they sign it, we start that process. We don’t wait for, you know, something else to happen. We’re using the information from the EHR. To get it started. We’re keeping the prior off in the EHR so they can see everything side by side. And there’s no checking right when it gets approved.

Christie Callahan: It’s showing up in their workflow. And everybody’s able to move on. And I think, you know, again, coming back to your point. How do we make these tools work better? Electronic is [00:24:00] awesome. But if you’re not in the work tool, that’s not, you know, that only solves part of the problem. It gets it out of the fax machine.

Christie Callahan: You know, but it doesn’t get it into the system that I’m using to think about my work, to prioritize my day, to prioritize the day of my staff. And to make sure that, you know, we’re taking care of everybody and all the patients in the way that they need to be taken care of. Is

Erik Sunset: And it’s such a cool,

Christie Callahan: just said.

Erik Sunset: sorry, Christie, go right ahead. I interrupted you.

Christie Callahan: Is that helpful? Do you think that answers

Erik Sunset: Absolutely. it?

Erik Sunset: painted the very painful picture. I I knew you would. It’s just, it’s ugly. It’s an ugly process. And then this is just my own personal opinion and certainly don’t want to speak for Christie or organizations, but prior auths, much like the denial of a claim for no good reason is a way to make it harder to get the exact right care when there’s a cheaper alternative, that’s maybe 80 percent is good. [00:25:00] Speculation on my part, but there you go. But the, the value chain that you’re discussing is really, it’s really interesting, especially through the lens of provider satisfaction. Okay. We’re not going to wait. Patient satisfaction, because like, if you go drop off your car for an oil change at your dealership. And you expect that you’re going to sit there for the 15 minutes it takes to do an oil change and then drive away, but Oh, actually we can’t do it for another two hours. So we’ll call you that breaking of an expectation that, Hey, you wanted the drug. Now you’ve got a sick kid, but there’s a prior off.

Erik Sunset: You’re going to have to wait. You didn’t know about that does wonders for patient satisfaction. I would expect just to have the right expectations set. And then to be able to tack on the transparency and price as well from the point of care. And then you’re avoiding that cost of the call back to the practice, call back to the facility of, What do you mean it costs this much?

Erik Sunset: I need something else. So it’s a really interesting value chain that you’re solving for, especially keeping that data [00:26:00] in the EHR where you

Christie Callahan: Well, and your point about consumer expectations, patient expectations. See, this is good. We should be using them interchangeably. Is spot on, right? Which is, I don’t want to go to the pharmacy if it’s not going to be ready, right? If I know in the office that I’m going to have to wait wait for a call or, you know, wait till it clears and pharmacy app that I’m using or, or whatever that might look like for me.

Christie Callahan: That’s fantastic. And I think, you know, the other piece that we think is important as or at arrive is making sure that you’re in the loop along the way. And so, you know, when that PA gets sent off, We let you know when it gets sent to your, when the questions get completed and gets sent to your plan, we let you know.

Christie Callahan: When it gets approved, we let you know. So that to the extent that, you know, you want to be in the driver’s seat and you want to be pushing your provider and your pharmacy to get things through, you know, you’re empowered to do so.

Erik Sunset: Yeah, that’s huge peace of mind, especially for those [00:27:00] guardians of pediatric patients.

Christie Callahan: I know, yeah, yeah, that’s exactly right.

Erik Sunset: Well, what else is there to say about price transparency and prescriptions either from the point of care for the provider and easing their workload for the patient and their expectations. We’re hitting all the high points here. I’ve really enjoyed the discussion so far.

Christie Callahan: I have to, you know, I think I think price transparency as a term, as a buzzword. It means a lot of different things, and you know, I think similar to the point you made around EPA, there was a lot of hype and maybe not so much sizzle, right? I would say something similar about price transparency, right?

Christie Callahan: Like, is it real in the way that it exists today? And I think that’s the point to make, right? Maybe two points. Price transparency in and of itself. is not the solution. It’s how we deliver it to docs and to patients in a way that [00:28:00] makes it effective in building trust and driving conversations and driving health outcomes.

Christie Callahan: And second, that not all tools are created equal, you know, to your point, getting the right price for any given patient. Is a complex web. And so you’ve really got to know what you’re doing and estimation doesn’t cut it. Prices change and are wildly different for any patient at any given time. And Knowing what they paid last month is not the answer necessarily for what they’re going to pay this month.

Christie Callahan: And so I think, I think that’s the burden, right? The burden as we build health tech solutions is how are we accurate? How do we get it right for every patient, every provider? And how do we do it in a way that doesn’t add burden, that doesn’t add complexity, but rather simplifies the conversation? And [00:29:00] helps our providers.

Christie Callahan: Provide care and improve health. That’s right.

Erik Sunset: That’s really well put. And I think that’s a, that’s a realistic reality to work towards. Can we paint the picture of utopia that, you know, is virtually unachievable, unattainable in the current state of play? Because when I think of price transparency, I think of like your Amazon example earlier, our Amazon example earlier, I know what it’s going to cost. I know if I have to pay for shipping and tax, and I see it all in my shopping cart. You know the system better than I do. And I have spent a little bit of time in the revenue cycle world. So if I really wanted to, if you really wanted to. We could figure out a hypothetical visit with certain services provided.

Erik Sunset: Maybe they’re going to send out for labs and they’re probably going to prescribe me this. I think my diagnosis for the visit will be X, Y, and Z. Here are my CPTs. Here’s my plan. And I make it sound as complicated as I can [00:30:00] because it is complicated. You know how the system works. And if you had enough time, you could find out how much that would cost you. Even knowing how the system works, I’m never going to do that. It’s a complete waste of time. So I’ll, you know, I have a range in my head. I got to go to the specialist. It’s probably going to be this much. And if this happens, then it’s going to cost me more or whatever. So there’s no transparency in that.

Erik Sunset: I mean, the real transparency would be ahead of the visit. And this is where we’re getting unrealistic, you know, panacea. Maybe some very complex problem to solve for some where you can have a price estimator before you ever step foot on the health care facility. That would be the lame explanation for price transparency. Thoughts?

Christie Callahan: I think that’s right. I don’t think it’s untenable But I do think it’s incredibly complex You know, I think a lot of people this is gonna sound terrible, but I think you know if you [00:31:00] get some diagnosis, right? And you’re going to have to go through even a couple rounds of diagnostics of some sort, you know, some sort of imaging, some sort of procedure, potentially, you’re kind of just expecting to pay your deductible and it sounds terrible, but like, you know, you kind of have no other basis for saying, All right, how much could I, how much might I need to pay?

Christie Callahan: Right? Well, at least my deductible is Right. Yeah. Kind of my ceiling right like depends on the plan, but like good approximation for my ceiling And so then you’re kind of working back from that and you’re like, okay. Well, can I can I pay that right? Let’s say my deductible is 5, 000 is that something I can afford this year and I think that’s where you get it to your point into the conversation of Am I going to do anything?

Christie Callahan: Am I gonna you know, am I gonna even take the first step? And so Yes, clearly there’s a need and clearly to your point, site of [00:32:00] care, CPT codes the plan itself what you’ve spent so far, the provider. The specific provider, right, that is going to do the work. It is quite complex to estimate what that cost is going to be.

Christie Callahan: But I think I think to your point, a range is a good first step. And specificity to the point that you know it’s even better. And that’s where, this is why we’ve started with drugs. And I don’t mean that as a, as a cop out in any way. But in drugs you have the script. You know who’s writing, you know what the medication is, you know what the quantity is, you, you, these, you know what the pharmacy is, you know where the patient wants to pick it up, right, you know all these things that when I’m saying, All right, you need to go get an x ray.

Christie Callahan: Okay, where are they going to take it? Who’s going to, you know, [00:33:00] who’s going to do the work? And, and there are so many questions that are yet to be determined that it really makes that estimation step hard. And so it is not impossible, but I do think we’ve got to figure out. How to empower the patient to make some of those decisions.

Christie Callahan: Get some of that information and then, you know, be able to provide the estimate.

Erik Sunset: I think you’re spot on, especially in non emergent care. I had to stifle a little bit of a laugh. I had an appendectomy last summer, and that was one of like my more morbid thoughts, you know, being transported to the hospital. How much is this going to cost? I haven’t met my deductible yet. So it’s probably that much.

Erik Sunset: And you know, that was the number

Erik Sunset: that was

Christie Callahan: That was whatever. Yeah, I had a baby this year. Same thing, right?

Erik Sunset: right. right. Well, Christie, if our listeners want to [00:34:00] connect with you, are you big on LinkedIn, Twitter, any social medias? Where would you point people?

Christie Callahan: Go to LinkedIn. I’m not going to claim to be incredibly active, but that’s where I am most active. So if LinkedIn is the place to be.

Erik Sunset: I would imagine Arrive Health’s got a LinkedIn as well. And then looking looking ahead, if there’s anything you either can or would want to share, what are you working on right now? What’s coming down the pipe? What’s exciting in your world? Yeah,

Christie Callahan: think we started if it’s not, if it hasn’t been clear in the last 36 minutes, right we’ve been very focused on providers and getting this information to you know, to the point of care so that it can drive a conversation, you know, and as we think about this year, we’re Increasingly focused on the patient and to your question at the top patients as consumers.

Christie Callahan: And so what I’m most excited about this year is, you know, last year was about real time benefits and prior auth and, and really growing [00:35:00] that provider toolkit to make sure that these tools are, are in value and invaluable and are improving the provider experience and subsequently the patient experience.

Christie Callahan: But now it’s about how do we bring that to patients and how do we get them engaged and how do we make sure that They’re a part of the conversation and that they’re able to have some agency over their care as well. So that’s what’s on the horizon for us and excited for, excited for the year and it’s only January so we can be nothing but optimistic, right?

Erik Sunset: it’s it’s, it’s only January, but it’s already the 16th, but the way the holidays kind of stacked up, it’s like, I’m in a time warp. Hopefully you feel like you’ve gotten more for your money than I do. Well, Christie, thanks so much for joining us on behalf of the entire DocBuddy team. Thank you for listening.

Erik Sunset: Be sure you’re subscribed on Apple podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube, since you can always get the newest episodes of the show. And until next time, I’m Erik Sunset, I’ll talk to you again [00:36:00] soon.