Finding Your Leadership Zone Of Genius w/ Sharissa Sebastian Deppen

Erik Sunset: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome back. I’m Erik Sunset, your host of the DocBuddy Journal. Here at DocBuddy, of course, we deliver healthcare solutions that take the pain and cost out of broken workflows, like with our Op Note product, which gives ASCs and their affiliated clinics the power of instantly generated operative reports approved from the point of care.

Erik Sunset: You can learn more about Op Note and all of our solutions at DocBuddy.com. Today we’re joined by Sharissa Sebastien Deppen. Sharissa is the CEO of Leadership Mastery Alliance, which is a company specializing in supporting introverted servant leaders who are women in corporate leadership.

Erik Sunset: She’s a leadership and executive coach with an MBA, an MSC in technology leadership, and her PCC certification from the International Coaching Federation. She’s also a Myers Briggs Certified Practitioner who has 15 plus years of corporate leadership experience in addition to coaching several Fortune 100 leaders and executives.

Erik Sunset: Sharissa, thanks so much for joining us today.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Thanks, Erik. It’s a pleasure to be here and thanks for the introduction.

Erik Sunset: [00:01:00] Oh, it’s our pleasure to have you. Thanks for making a little time for the DocBuddy Journal. Hopefully I covered all of the, uh, the key points there in your intro, but if not, what else should listeners know about you?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Oh, yeah, I think you covered it perfectly. But one thing that I will say just to kind of add to that is I am really passionate about helping leaders, specifically introverted servant leaders who are in the workplace basically lead from what I call your leadership zone of genius. So understanding who you are, how you’re wired and being able to just get in the zone when it comes to leadership.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So you can be really excited about waking up every day and doing the work that you do without sacrificing your life outside of work. So that’s just a little addition to what you mentioned as far as where this drive and passion comes from as far as the work that I do.

Erik Sunset: That’s fantastic. And, you know, as you say, um, being a coach for introverted servant leaders, uh, for those who are introverted and even for those who aren’t, I suppose. And sometimes being able to navigate conflict and difficult [00:02:00] conversations can be tricky. I mean, nobody likes those scenarios. And if you happen to be an introvert, which I think is an N on that Myers Briggs.

Erik Sunset: Type personality, uh, inventory can be especially difficult. What, what kind of pro tips do you have for those sorts of folks?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Great question. So yeah, it is especially difficult. to, you know, to handle conflict, um, introverts tend to internalize a lot and do a lot of internal processing before going into, you know, these kinds of situations, especially when you have to have a difficult conversation. And sometimes what can happen is kind of that analysis paralysis or going into that analysis loop of second guessing, questioning, overthinking, you know, how do you approach this?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So what I’m hoping to do in answering your question is just to provide some, um, a basic framework, maybe when it comes to how to approach these kinds of conversations, a couple of areas to consider when you’re preparing to have a difficult conversation or get into, um, yeah, maybe address a conflict situation or anything along those lines.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Um, the first thing I will say is, of course, we’re human, right? So when we are. You know, when we are [00:03:00] confronted with something like this, it’s very easy to take the information that we’re given and make an assumption or go into some kind of judgment around what’s going on. So what I would say is, as you approach the conversation, even from a mindset perspective or any kind of conflict, is think about how you can lean in with curiosity and seek to understand first before you move into judging or going to problem solving mode.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: As leaders, I know that’s, It tends to be like a natural tendency, right? We want to problem solve. We want to jump in and say, okay, how do we fix this? How do we resolve it? But my invitation would be to take a step back, take a pause, take a breath and allow yourself the space to be able to go in from a mindset of really going in with saying, okay, I’m going to be open to and curious to try to understand this a little bit better before I make that informed decision and before I figure out what’s the next best thing.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: step. So that that would be my number one tip is to just go in with an open mind. Um, and also just lean with empathy as much as possible because you don’t, you know, you don’t walk in the same shoes as the people that you’re going to be interacting with in these kinds of situations. So you never really know where they’re coming from, what kind of [00:04:00] contributed to that conflict or whatever the situation may be.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: And so leading in with curiosity and with empathy and with seeking to understand first is not only going to be helpful for them, it can be Definitely defuse like a very high, very highly charged emotional situation. But it’s going to also help you be more well informed so that as you approach, okay, how do we address this?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: How do we solve this problem? It just makes it a lot more, you know, it makes it a lot more effective. So that would be, um, the, the one thing that I would say is. It’s really important. And then just focusing on the facts, making sure as much as possible again to watch those assumptions and judgments and things like that and focus on what you know to be true and try to get as much of that input ahead of time if you can so that you’re focusing on the on the facts, aligning with what the expectation needs to be and trying as best as you can to find that common ground between you and whoever it is that you’re speaking with so that you’re both moving towards whatever that common goal is.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: The more you can align with, um, ideally what that person is moving towards or what’s important to them, the easier that, uh, that conflict resolution is going to be. Um, and then lastly, the one other thing I will [00:05:00] add to that is just as, and this is a tough one for leaders, but as a leader, just to take that ownership and accountability for any areas where you could have contributed to any kind of confusion or to, you know, to that in any way, because that, that goes a long way, um, with building that trust and helping whoever it is on the other side of that conversation be a little bit more open to addressing the situation head on.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So hopefully that, that helps.

Erik Sunset: Yeah. And everything you just said, that’s, that’s so valuable. And especially as time passes, you know, I’m seeing that in my own interpersonal relationships that you don’t always need to jump straight to problem solving. Sometimes just listening and offering a solution if needed is the more appropriate.

Erik Sunset: But I want to, I want to paint the scenario for you, Sharissa, that we see so often in medical practices or in surgery centers, or even in hospitals for that matter, there’s this really interesting dynamic where you have a physician or a surgeon and then an office manager, an administrator, somebody without an MD or a DO, um, and they are tasked [00:06:00] with leading the operation in a, in a business sense.

Erik Sunset: And you can sometimes have a pretty heated exchange flowing from the physician towards that administrator. Um, what do you have to say to that for, for de escalation where let’s, let’s call a spade a spade. There’s, there’s likely a difference unless you happen to have a physician administrator, but you have a physician and somebody who’s not a physician.

Erik Sunset: And a lot of times that physician feels like they’re in charge. I know the right thing to do. This is the right thing, period. I don’t want to hear any reason why that’s not the case, but they can be wrong.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Yeah, absolutely. And yes, you’re absolutely right. I hear that a lot, not even just in that type of setting, but generally speaking, in any kind of work environment, there’s, there is definitely a potential to have those level of, of conflicts, but especially it’s, you know, highly critical in any kind of like medical or clinical setting, especially.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So I love that you brought this up. Um, so the one thing that I, what I’ve noticed over the years, um, if I could like create or, um, Identify a pattern when it comes to this. A lot of it comes from a misalignment of expectations, [00:07:00] right? So when a position is expecting one thing and then they don’t get what they expect and then of course, you know, the Administrative team is doing what they think is best or what they think is they should be doing in a given situation But it doesn’t align with whatever that expectation is That’s where a lot of this conflict can, can come from.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So I would say kind of addressing that upfront before you get into those critical, you know, critical kind of, um, conversations or critical, um, situations is going to be really important. The other thing I always encourage my leaders to do is especially in a setting where you know, you’re going to be working with a certain group of people, right?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So, um, in any kind of given situation is talk about how you’re going to address the conflicts before they even happen. Okay. So be proactive with that. Come to the table and say, okay, when we have disagreements, when things are not going according, like, you know, according to what we expect or anything like that, how should we address the situation?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: What’s the best way? Because when you understand from another person’s perspective, how they like to be, you know, addressed in the, you know, in those kinds of situations, it makes it that much easier. If you can come to agreement. So for example, if the physician comes in and says, okay, [00:08:00] in this situation, if I’m telling you, no, this is not right, or we need to do this a little bit differently, um, here’s how I would like to, you know, this to be addressed and vice versa with the administrative staff.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: If they’re like, okay, how do we handle a situation where you disagree with us? How should we handle that in a way that’s going to lead to a productive outcome? When you can come to that agreement ahead of time and talk about like ways of working together in the best possible way, then when you get into those conflict situations, and it’s much less likely that it’s going to You know, include and like an emotionally charged kind of situation.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So that’s what I would say. The two main things I would point out in that situation is the line and expectations given the, you know, the different scenarios, especially if it’s a repeatable type of situation, right? When if this tends to happen a lot, um, then talk ahead of time about, okay, how should we address this going forward?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: What is the expectation, get to a common goal and work backwards from there to say, okay, we both agree that this is what we’re trying to get to in this situation. Now, how do we align on what the expectation is on both sides and then come to some kind of agreement on how we want to handle that? And then also, when there is a conflict or disagreement.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: What’s the [00:09:00] best way of handling it? So the more proactive you can be in that situation, the better.

Erik Sunset: And this, this may be a stretch and I’m certainly not an expert in this field like you are, but it seems like the. If you’re able to remove the emotional aspect from it before it ever happens. So, Hey, we’re, we’re going to disagree. And when we do like, here’s our, here’s our protocol, X, Y, Z, things that need to happen, X, Y, and Z didn’t happen.

Erik Sunset: But if you go into that ahead of time and you know, you’re not upset about it, but why didn’t we have X, Y, and Z? Like, you know, in the case of the surgeon, you have my, my prep cards. I wanted these tools and I wanted my tray to look like this. You didn’t do it. And instead of screaming, it’s, were we out of these?

Erik Sunset: Did the, that our supplier fail us? Did we not order that? It just seems like that’s a really positive piece of culture, uh, that a real legitimate servant leader would have in place. What are your thoughts

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Yes, a hundred percent. And I love that you brought this up because that is such a key part of this as well. It kind of goes back to what we were talking about [00:10:00] earlier about leaning in with curiosity and understanding before you go to a judgment or, you know, uh, pointing fingers or anything like that. So exactly what you just said, that’s such a beautiful example of this in that situation, when your perception is something wasn’t done, that should have been done.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Asking the question, Okay. Why? What, you know, what happened? What has led to this, um, you know, to cause this to happen? Because ultimately you want to solve the bigger, the bigger issue, right? It’s not just a one time, go do this thing. And then we’re moving on because if that situation is, you know, if that’s going to reoccur, then addressing the one time situations, you know, it’s, it’s not really going to help the bigger problem.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So if you can get to the root cause of what’s, what’s causing the conflict in the first place, so that you can address that and lean in with that curiosity and understanding, it’s going to have a much bigger, a better, longer term impact. Then simply just addressing it and saying, just go do this or go do this differently,

Erik Sunset: Do you find that leads to a reduction in having to navigate any conflicts at all and having hard conversations if this is just a part of the culture? I mean, is that the, is that how [00:11:00] reality plays out?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: right? And I think another component to this as well, especially in environments where the teams are, you know, um, have a relationship of work, like they’ve been working together for an extended period of time. Um, the relationship building aspect of that is. Critical. It’s absolutely critical. And I know it’s so it’s it’s hard to do in an environment where it’s so fast paced, right?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Things are moving so fast. There’s a lot of demands. There’s a lot of expectations across the board, and it’s hard to take a step back and say, Okay, so how can we actually focus on building relationships between these teams so that it makes that, you know, so that minimizes the chance of us getting into conflict.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: But that relationship building aspect is extremely important. Critical. So, for example, a simple example of this is when you’re having team meetings or things like that, bring in that human element, right, care about people and talk about, okay, what’s going on in your life. And, you know, find those commonalities, find a way to build those relationships.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Because when you build relationships, that is what’s going to help with that long term success and minimizing conflict and understanding. Because when you try to understand again, it goes back to like being curious and trying to understand the [00:12:00] person getting to know somebody that you’re going to be working with.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So that when these things come up, it’s going to be a lot easier to, to address from a human to human perspective instead of just, you know, saying, okay, there’s a problem in front of us. You’re the problem. And now we need to fix it. It’s not that, you know, it’s not that kind of situation. But when you get to know somebody, it’s a lot easier to address it more calmly and in a more productive way.

Erik Sunset: And that, that again, just, it seems so true. We’ve had some high performing leaders in the surgery center space on the show in the last six months, year, however long, however long it’s been. And I know they all make it a, a point to instill that culture that you’re always going to have to navigate difficult conversations.

Erik Sunset: Conversations you don’t necessarily love to have, but with that culture and with the right tools and skillset to be able to navigate those conversations when they come up, obviously higher morale is good. People want to work for you, you know, as that introverted servant leader. But I think it’s hard to say it’s more important, but in this [00:13:00] day and age, 2024 in the medical landscape, it is really difficult to hire and retain staff.

Erik Sunset: So that culture that drags high morale, but also low turnover. That might be even more important. Do you have any thoughts there on sort of the split between high morale and low turnover?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Yeah, absolutely. And of course, very hot topic right in today’s today’s climate, like, like you said, and I’m seeing this more and more in in corporate spaces, especially when it comes to like the economy at large, and all of those kinds of things, we’re starting to see more and more layoffs and things like that.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: And of course, the workload is not going away. So this is like a high pressure type of situation that a lot of, you know, a lot of people are in. And so, of course, that can easily lead to, you know, low morale and High turnover. So, um, the and there’s a couple of things to keep in mind as you know, as we navigate that, um, one is that we are focusing on what we can control versus what we can’t, right?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So when you’re in that situation where there’s a lot of things that are going to be outside of your your control, especially as a leader, if you’re leading a team in that kind of situation, [00:14:00] understanding that focusing on things that are outside of your control or getting stressed out and overly anxious over it.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: You know, things that you can’t control is obviously not going to be the best for your own well being, and it’s also going to spill over into how you lead your team. So just being very conscious of as you go into your day, focusing on what you can control. Okay, what do I have control over today? How do I want to approach?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: You know what? What’s going on so that I can help build my team up rather than, you know, be part off of what causes additional stress. So I would just say, just keep that mindset in mind as you navigate these, you know, these very challenging times. Mhm. Um, and also taking care of yourself, right as a leader.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: It’s incredibly important to make sure as best as you can to take care of your, you know, your mental, your physical, your spiritual well being all of those things. Um, as much as you possibly can in. I’m sure the very limited time that you have so that when you do. Face these situations that are going to be, you know, prone to high stress and things like that.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: You’re a lot, you’re in a better position to handle it. And you’re also leading by example, right? You’re helping your team to navigate these situations where, um, where they feel like they have the support and you’re [00:15:00] providing that example for them and how to do that. Um, and there’s, of course, so much more I could unpack in that, but, um, I’ll leave that, that right there.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: But a couple of other points I wanted to make when it comes to focusing on how you can support your team well, so that you do create that, you know, that environment of higher morale. Even when there’s a very heavy workload. Um, and of course that leads them to, to lower turnover. When you know that, you know, when your team feels supported and they feel that sense of belonging and that they have a place and they have a purpose, um, at work, that makes a lot of difference.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Um, especially in times of high stress. So a couple of different things to consider here. One is open communication and transparency. That’s going to be really important, especially from a leadership perspective to make sure that you’re creating that psychologically. Safe space for that open dialogue, open communication.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So people feel comfortable coming to you and letting you know how they feel what’s going on and expressing, you know, whatever it is that that they have on their mind to you, or even in that in that team setting, the other thing is recognition and appreciation can go a really long way. And I [00:16:00] know this can be hard because it can sometimes feel like, okay, one more thing I have to remember to, you know, appreciate and to recognize the people and appreciate what has been the work that’s been done.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Because a lot of times We are so focused on what I call the gap, right? Where we are now and where we want to be. We focus on, okay, there’s so much that still needs to be done, but we forget about how much is accomplished and the incredible things that, you know, the people around us and even ourselves, you know, that we do when we step into the workplace.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So the recognition and appreciation is going to go a long way with that high morale. Um, also empowerment and autonomy, right? So this came up in actually a conversation I had today with one of my clients. Um, and I was asking him, like, how do you want to be remembered as a leader? And And one of the things he said, Well, I can tell you how I don’t want to be remembered.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: I don’t want to be a micromanager. I was like, Okay, well, let’s talk about that. What does that mean? And that’s how this, you know, this concept of like empowerment and autonomy came up when people feel like they’re trusted to do the work and make the right decisions based on their role and level of responsibility.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: It really helps them feel better about being able to come into work. And have that level of [00:17:00] autonomy that, um, that they feel that they need, um, and empowerment to be able to do their jobs. Cause that leads to them feeling like, okay, if my manager trusts me or my leadership trusts me to do this, then I’m going to step it up and I’m going to do the best job that I can do.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Um, so there’s that also providing a level of support and flexibility. So of course, like you mentioned, right, we’re in a time now where it’s. It’s infinitely more challenging, um, to give people that level of flexibility that maybe, you know, would be more ideal. But at the same time, there are ways and opportunities to look for those little, uh, you know, little ways that you can provide some support and flexibility.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So a lot of people right now are navigating, um, you know, childcare or taking care of elderly, you know, parents. There’s a lot of things going on in their personal lives. That they now have to juggle with, um, you know, with their work responsibility. So any level of flexibility that can be provided there, maybe more flexible work hours, um, that kind of thing, uh, that would be really helpful.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Um, one other thing just from personal experience as well, uh, during COVID, um, there, there was a couple of different, um, healthcare organizations that provided, um, coaching support to their staff. [00:18:00] And so, and I just happened to, you know, support one of those, one of those programs during that time. And I can’t tell you how many times I heard from the people that were receiving coaching, just being able to step out of the, you know, out of the clinical space and step into a car, even for 20 or 30 minutes and just talk through what was going on, how helpful that was.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So if a company’s organizations can provide, you know, that additional level of support, whether that’s through EAP programs or whatever it is, um, that’s really, really helpful. It might not be to specifically. Solve, you know, a specific problem because obviously, you know, as a coach or that support, we’re not in that situation, but at the same time, giving people a space to be able to express themselves and get that support can make a lot of difference when it comes to how they feel when they go back into, into the workplace.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Um, and then just two other things I’ll mention this. There’s a lot we can talk about here, um, but team building and camaraderie. So we talked about that relationship building. So when people feel that sense of belonging in the workplace. Um, it really does make it make a difference. So for leaders to keep an eye on that and make sure that they’re creating a space [00:19:00] and environment to come together to, you know, to really build those relationships is going to be really critical.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So that not only is that leader supporting them, but they feel like they have a supportive environment and they’re supporting and looking for ways to support each other. Um, and then the last thing I’ll mention here is just optimizing work processes. There’s an interesting statistic that I, uh, that I found on, um, on burnout.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: And so that’s, there were a couple of different things. One is that, and this was a study that was done just in, in May. Um, I think it was May of last year, 2023. Um, and it said that only 12 percent of nurses reporting having no symptoms of burnout. So 88% 88 percent of nurses reported having symptoms of, but I’m sure that statistic is probably about the same, if not, you know, um, more this year.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: And so, um, what that, what they attributed that to is insufficient staffing, excessive administrative tasks and high patient loads, which, you know, we probably already knew this, but the thing that stood out to me the most is the excessive administrative tasks. There’s definitely opportunities here to create some [00:20:00] efficiencies and processes and things like that.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So as a leader, to think about how do I create those efficiencies and how do I, um, you know, maybe play to, to my team’s strengths a little bit, to, to navigate that balance of the workload is going to be so important. So I just said a lot, but hopefully that was really helpful.

Erik Sunset: No, no, it is very helpful indeed. And it’s, uh, you gave me a really, uh, a really easy segue here on managing workload. Cause you’re right. I’ve seen the same data. And the cause of burnout for nurses and providers has shifted post, uh, pre COVID rather. It dealt primarily with bad softwares that took too much time.

Erik Sunset: And now post COVID, you have the lack of staffing, which is the number one driver of burnout. You have the administrative tasks and excessive patient loads, like the administrative tasks and patient loads, depending on where you work in healthcare, those two things are not going to go away. Certainly not patient loads.

Erik Sunset: And as a part of a health system or a large group, there’s just going to be things that Have to do, uh, whether you [00:21:00] like them or not, but being able to manage that workload, um, when we’re talking about this introverted servant leader, there’s going to be a lot of hats that are worn. And depending on the level of introversion, there may not be the talent for delegation, even with your limited staffing.

Erik Sunset: So you end up doing too much with too little time. What’s the, what’s the cure for that?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: well, I don’t know if I have the cure, but I definitely certainly have some, some things to consider in that in that area, especially from an introverted servant leader perspective. Introverted servant leaders tend to take on a lot, right? It’s the nature of servant leadership to want to give, to want to serve, to want to support other people, do the best they can and all of that.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Not that. You know, other people don’t do the same thing, but they tend to put to take on a lot. And so one of the things I would say, especially if you have a tendency to internalize a lot of things and just kind of take things on without speaking about it, without having an opportunity to get the support that you need, is just be honest about it.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: A lot of times we just [00:22:00] think that, okay, we just have to do that. That’s the nature of our work. And we take on so much and that can easily lead to, uh, to burnout. But what I would say is just be honest with it, especially with your, you know, your team that’s there to support you. So your leadership team, your direct manager, things like that, um, be completely honest about, you know, your workload, what you’re experiencing and all of that, because there might be things that you’re not even considering that might, that could really help you in that situation.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: And being open and speaking to the right people can really help you to, you know, to navigate those kinds of things. So one, I would say is just be completely. You know, honest with yourself first and then, you know, be honest with your leadership about what’s going on, what you’re experiencing, how you’re already trying to navigate this.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: But there might be other, you know, tools, resources, other ways to navigate this that, um, that maybe you’re not aware of. So asking for the help you need is basically what I’m saying, um, as much as you, you can, um, and then also knowing your strengths, right? It’s really important to know, okay, what are the things that I’m really good at?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: What are the areas that I enjoy? What are the areas where, you know, it takes me maybe longer than than I would like, because that’s just not an area of strength for me [00:23:00] and as best as you can to try to figure out, you know, how can you navigate that? It could be, and I’ve seen this a lot with like you’re working directly with your manager to figure out, okay, what are the priorities?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: What are the things that are most critical, most important, getting that alignment there so that you know what to focus on as you go through your day. So you don’t feel like you’re constantly just fighting fires. Um, and then another just practical aspect of this is knowing how those priorities line up with.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Your your time and where that time is going. Now, of course, if you can delegate some of those things that you know that maybe somebody else can do it more efficiently, that would that’s fantastic. That would be a great way to do that. But the other thing to consider is going back to what I said earlier about efficiencies, right?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Look at what what you’re doing. The processes that you’re following to do, especially those repetitive tasks that, you know, that you do, or you have in your, um, you know, as part of your workload, um, well, how can you make those things a little bit easier? Is there something that you can set up? Are they technology that is a technology that you could use?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: It’s somebody else, maybe in a different team or something like that. Um, look into ways that you can make your job as easy as possible. [00:24:00] And then the other thing I would say is, um, kind of addressing, trying to minimize burnout as much as possible too, is take those, even those little mini micro breaks. as much as you can, right?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: That can be as simple as walking outside for five minutes to get some fresh air. Um, you know, it can be as simple as doing some breathing exercises where you are, it doesn’t have to be this long drawn out. You don’t have to take a one hour lunch every day, although that would be amazing to be able to do that.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: But it can be the little things in, you know, in between that can really help you to focus and problem solve more effectively rather than you just trying to like, you know, push through, um, your, your everyday. So that’s what I would, I would say is just be honest with yourself about where you are. Know the signs of burnout, right?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So if you’re starting to get disengaged, if you started to just show up at work and just be completely already exhausted coming in, um, and there’s, there’s a lot of other things to consider when it comes to, you know, um, how to, how to identify, um, when you are heading towards burnout, um, but know the signs and then also be able to, to ask for help when you need it and try to create efficiencies as much as possible.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: And just don’t, don’t hesitate [00:25:00] to lean into those areas where you feel like, uh, maybe, you know, somebody else could, uh, could step in and help you.

Erik Sunset: And, uh, the one little bit I’ll add there is that to be a high performing leader, whether introverted or extroverted or otherwise, everything that you’ve said doesn’t happen just accidentally, you may have one in a million personality type where this is just kind of their natural operating system, but for the rest of us, for most of us, if not everybody, this is a culture that has to be curated.

Erik Sunset: It has to be cultivated. It’s a living thing. So to, to quickly recap where we’ve been so far navigating conflicts and difficult conversations, if you already know what you’re going to do and how the organization and your teams and interpersonal, uh, relationships operate and what you’re going to do for conflict navigation, uh, resolution, rather, you’re going to have a lot less of them, but they’re going to feel like less of a conflict I would imagine.

Erik Sunset: And then being able to manage, manage workloads too. You know, and through the lens of health care, you need to [00:26:00] be a ruthless prioritizer. Now, unless you own your own medical practice, you’re going to need somebody else’s buy in there as the leader of the business operations side. So just being able to align.

Erik Sunset: And again, this goes back to the first point. Uh, that none of it is on accident. It has to be curated and cultivated, like we’ve said.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: That’s exactly,

Erik Sunset: And then you get, I stepped on you there. Sure. So go right ahead.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: I was going to say that you’re spot on because it does take intentionality and it’s going to feel a little bit, you know, a little bit tough to kind of navigate that at first, because you’re going to have to take a step back from the everyday, you know, like work and things like that. But when you do that and you do it with intentionality, it can really make all of the difference, but you do need that alignment, like you said, because we don’t work in, in a vacuum and a complete vacuum.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So the alignment across the board is going to be really important to,

Erik Sunset: Yeah. Now this is tongue in cheek, obviously. And if you are a sole member LLC, you need this more than anybody because you got nobody else to help you.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Good point.[00:27:00]

Erik Sunset: And then on the, on the tail end of that, you mentioned burnout and the signs of burnout that ties in, at least from my perspective, one to one with work life balance.

Erik Sunset: You cannot be thinking about work 24 7 for very long. You could do it some longer than others, but at some point you are going to burn out. So can you talk us through achieving some amount of work life balance? And obviously. You know, work life balance is different if you’re a powerball lottery winner versus those, the rest of us working for a living.

Erik Sunset: But how do you view those two things together?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Oh, that’s such a good point. So one of the things I want to, um, want to cover first before going into the work life balance aspect is the burnout aspect of this, right? And so just being able to identify when you need to lean in more to that work life balance. Um, and those are things like, uh, so if you’re not sure and you’re like, well, you know, I don’t know if I’m burning out or it’s just, you know, Just the nature of my work, and it is what it is.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Um, some of the signs of burnout that can be helpful to identify, not just for yourself, but also for other members [00:28:00] of your team, are things like fatigue, decreased productivity, um, decreased engagement. Um, if you feel like people are withdrawing, or even if you feel like you’re kind of withdrawing from, you know, from the work that you’re doing.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Um, Increased absenteeism, um, change in mood or behavior, right? If there’s something that you’re just noticing either yourself internally or even with somebody else, that something is just not off. You don’t feel the same way. You’re not as engaged in your work or you just feel like, oh, you know, I could.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: If I just gave this up tomorrow, I’d be, I’d be fine. This is not working for me. Or whatever it is. Those all can be signs of, but another, there is something to be said. I will, you know, kind of caveat that by saying if you do feel like that’s not the right fit for you and you no longer feel that sense of purpose and, and meaning and all of that, maybe another conversation to have.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Right? You just, you do wanna make sure that the work that you’re doing and you’re pouring yourself into is aligned with work that you feel is purposeful and meaningful to you. So I will say that, but um, kind of going back to what you were saying about work-life balance though, um. One of the things that you that’s going to be important with work life balance is exactly what you just touched on.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: I love that you said this already is setting realistic expectations because work [00:29:00] life balance is going to be very different from one person to the next. It’s going to be different based on the work that you that you have based on what you feel you need as an individual to recharge, right? And to to be ready for the work that you’re doing.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: That you have, so it might look different from one person to another, and it’s also going to probably be different in different seasons of your life. So this is another thing, especially in the health care space, right? So they could be sometimes where there’s going to be just a really busy period, right there, depending on what’s going on at work and things like that.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So maybe there’s a month or two where you know that you’re going to, you know, a lot is going to be required of you, and maybe you can’t lean that much into work life balance. So just being very realistic on what that could look like, um, you know, in terms of what you need and then also in terms of the season that you’re in, what’s going to be a realistic for you, um, knowing that hopefully there’s going to be a light at the end of that tunnel where maybe at, you know, after a few months or a month or whatever the case is, um, you know that it’s going to, it’s going to get better, but obviously you can’t get into that cycle if you go in a situation right now where you don’t see an end in sight and you’re like, Okay.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: I already know that I’m, I’m probably already burning out, um, then there’s something else. And so I would [00:30:00] definitely encourage you to speak with a coach or speak with someone to get really clear on, okay, what, what does this look like? And is it something where you can work on proactively in terms of getting that, that balance right and making sure that you’re taking care to sustain you through this time?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Or is it more, is it a bigger question of, is this even the right thing? fit for you. So I will say, say that, uh, but just in terms of the work life balance, um, taking regular breaks is going to be really important. Um, I think probably the, your audience already knows this. So whoever’s listening probably is like, okay, yeah, I get that.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Um, but it needs to be said because it is incredibly important and goes back to what I was saying earlier. It doesn’t necessarily mean that you have to take those 30 minute lunches or one hour lunches It can be things as something as simple as five minutes walking outside getting some fresh air Being out in nature and things like that.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So that work life balance or integration can be taking a walk outside of work, right? So things like that so taking care of things like your your physical health So making sure that you are exercising you’re getting out in nature You’re you’re getting in that that fresh air and things like that is going to be important So It’s also your [00:31:00] sleep, right?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So making sure that you, um, you’re taking care of your sleep and you’re making sure you’re getting good sleep, not just the, the amount of time that you’re, you’re sleeping, but you’re getting good rest. It can be nutrition. I mean, there’s so many different, uh, elements that can help you to feel fully recharged that when you go into work.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: You feel like, you know, you’re ready for whatever it is that, um, that is going to be there in that day. Um, and then just in terms of the, the practical aspect of that, um, the, like the, the time that you spend at work versus the time that you spend at home, making sure that especially if you’re working longer hours, or if your job requires a lot.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Making sure that when you, you know, when you do go home and when you do have that, that off time from work, that you’re really investing that time and effort into the activities that you feel are going to recharge you. Social connection is another important aspect of this. Having a good social support system.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: It could be friends, family, however, you know, whatever that is. It’s going to be really important to help support you through all of that. But yeah, that rest and recharge is going to be important. And then one other thing to add to that is that the mental recharge too, right? So it’s not just [00:32:00] physically being away from work, but being able to mentally disconnect is going to be absolutely crucial.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Critical. So I know there’s probably a lot of people, you know, watching or listening into us, um, are going to be on call and different things like that. So that makes it a little bit more challenging, but as best as you can to, to think about, okay, what are the best ways that I can mentally, um, you know, focus on, on recharging and doing the activities that, that I enjoy outside of work so that my mind is not constantly on things that are work related.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So choosing things wisely, like choosing what you choose to focus on and where you spend your time outside of work is really going to help again, it goes all back to that recharge, whatever’s going to help you to stay recharged and energized and well rested so that when you do have to go into work, you feel a whole lot better and, and well equipped.

Erik Sunset: I’d be curious for your thoughts on this as well, Charis, because everything you said makes really good sense to me, and it’s, it’s been a long time now, I can’t even pinpoint the year, but probably going on 15 plus years, we’re walking around with all of our different email inboxes in our pocket, [00:33:00] and there are some folks that feel beholden to their email at all hours, and I tell the folks that, that worked for me and have worked for me in the past, You’re gonna know if there’s something that’s, uh, high profile, it’s mission critical.

Erik Sunset: I’m not gonna spring that on you after hours. If I really need you, I’m going to call you. But I don’t want you just responding to emails that are things that come to mind for me after hours that I will eventually want to talk about. Don’t feel like you have to touch those. Now that that’s on a spectrum though, too, uh, that sometimes you need to be plugged in and it’s not at a time you are normally working, especially for our on call physicians, you know, we’re, we’re holding them, um, out to this.

Erik Sunset: But what, what do you tell your high performers? Uh, with regard to email, what’s your strategy for them

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Oh, that’s a great question. Um, and the example that you gave us is such a good one, and it really depends on the environment that you’re in, right? So there’s going to be different expectations depending on the nature of your work and different things like [00:34:00] that. But I would say it goes back to what we talked about earlier, right?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: That intentionality, being proactive, discussing these things and aligning on that expectation ahead of time is going to be super important. So it’s going to help you so much because then you’re not after hours, you know, attached to your phone, thinking that you, you know, that the person on the other end of that email is expecting you to respond within five minutes when maybe that’s not even the case.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So making sure that you’re addressing that ahead of time. Um, and you know, okay, they said there’s probably going to be certain cases where you do need to respond sooner rather than later, but knowing clearly, you know, those situations, what that is and setting, setting it up so that you’re not completely, you know, overwhelmed by.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Being on that device all the time. Uh, so just being realistic, cause I think a lot of times we set unrealistic expectations on ourselves and we think we need to be more plugged in than we need to, when really all it takes is having a conversation with whoever’s, you know, uh, the people that really need to be in touch with you after hours, having a conversation with them and say, okay, let’s, let’s talk about what’s the best way to address communication outside, you know, out of the, um, outside of working hours and then going from there.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: And I’m, I’m, I’m [00:35:00] sure, because I’ve had a lot of conversations like this with a lot of my leaders, a lot of times that the expectations that we think that we set for ourselves are much, much higher than the, you know, whoever’s on the other end of sending over that communication. So it’s just a matter of making sure that there’s, uh, there’s alignment there.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: And also that opens up the discussion for what you need as well, right? So if you feel like, or if somebody’s telling you, you need to respond, You know, every, every time you’re away from the office, you need to respond within five minutes. If you feel like that’s not really realistic or there’s a better way of doing that, um, then that opens up the discussion to say, okay, so I understand, tell me more about that.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So it’s again, leaning into curiosity and understanding, getting to the underlying issue. Okay. Why is that so, so important? Is there another way that we can address this? Um, and also making sure that they know, you know, kind of what, what you’re trying to, to accomplish. And so not just. Assuming that you need to do certain things or be, you know, be available all the time, but just addressing it head on so that you have the opportunity to discuss it.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: And also let your needs be known.

Erik Sunset: Imagine that it starts [00:36:00] before you encounter that problem, setting expectations and culture and instilling that both yourself and your teams. And even the folks that, uh, are maybe above you on the work chart.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Absolutely. And leveraging technology too, because I know, you know, we live in a day and age where technology is now available. Really helping us navigate this as well. So I know a lot of my leaders, what they will do is even if they are working after hours, they will schedule the emails to go out, you know, first thing in the morning, even though they’re, they’re setting it up at night, they send it out first thing in the morning and they have it automated so that they don’t have to worry about it.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Um, and then they don’t, you know, they’re, they’re helping basically their teams. To, um, with that expectation as well to say, okay, even though I’m up at 10 o’clock at night, doesn’t mean that this email can’t get into your inbox at eight o’clock tomorrow morning. And it’s perfectly fine if you address it tomorrow.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So leveraging technology and looking for efficiencies in different ways of doing things can be really helpful.

Erik Sunset: That’s a, that’s a really conscientious strategy because it’s, it’s happened to me more than once or twice. And not that I am, you know, the 100 percent always working type, [00:37:00] but we’ll see something that catches my eye or I have a question that comes to mind later in the evening, like, Oh, send it over to whoever needs to answer it and I’ll get with them tomorrow.

Erik Sunset: Then you get an email back at like three in the morning. Like, Oh my gosh, that I don’t want you to do that. Like, don’t be thinking about me or this problem at 3 AM. It’s crazy. You’re going to burn out your teams with that expectation.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Yeah, that’s absolutely right.

Erik Sunset: And on that note, we’ve touched on burnout a little bit. We’ve skirted it. We’ve dove into some aspects of burnout. You mentioned some of the ways that you can recognize signs of burnout in yourself and your staff. Obviously, we’re talking about healthcare. That’s just about everybody, unfortunately. Um, what are some, what are some practical tools or strategies to help folks feel less burnout?

Erik Sunset: And I, if I may, sure as I want to quantify or hedge this a little bit, the work will always be there and there’s never going to be any less of it. So how do you cope with that?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Oh, great [00:38:00] question. So the first thing that comes to mind as you were, as you were saying that is, um, be very clear on what your values are, your own personal priorities and the things that are important in your life. Um, like your, you know, your family and things like that. Like you said, work is always going to be there, but if you’re not aligning your values and the things that are important to you with where you spend your time and where your focus and energy goes, You’re going to get burned out.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: You just are. Um, and so it’s going to be really important to say, okay, what are my priorities? So I’ll give you an example, even just from my, from my own life. So I was a single mom for many, many years. And actually it’s interesting because the time that I experienced burnout, or I was very fast heading towards burnout, if I wasn’t already there.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: When I was just trying to juggle too much, I was trying to give too much to my, to my job. And that was happening at the expense of, you know, at that time, obviously my, my number one priority now, my, my daughter’s in college. So it’s a, it’s a different situation. But at that time she was younger. She needed me a lot more.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Um, and I was just getting burnt out because I was just trying to juggle way too much and be too, Too much to all people all at the same time. And so, and the reason I bring up the values is because, um, when [00:39:00] you are really clear on, okay, what is really important, how do I want to prioritize my time? How do I want to make decisions based on where I spend my time being clear on those values is going to be important.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So for example, at that time, my, my value was, you know, my family and my daughter and taking care of her. And then of course it was, you know, the work in Korea and they were all, all these other things. Um, but because she was my top priority, I did have to make a really difficult decision once I realized where I was.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: And I was like, Oh my goodness, I had this, you know, the sense of awareness and that came through the whole coaching process, but once I started to realize where this, what was driving this burnout, I was so misaligned with where I was spending my time and effort and energy versus where my values were.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: That’s when I had the ability to then correct it and say, okay, there’s something has to change. And for me, that meant, um, first of all, being aware, you know, like just Being aware of what was causing the burnout. But second of all, having to make a decision of, okay, how do I want to address that? And for me, that led to me completely changing career paths.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Um, and so, yeah, navigating it that way. But of course, that’s not the case for for everyone. But I would say just make sure that as you’re making decisions of where you’re spending your time, that’s very much aligned with what’s [00:40:00] important to you. And you’re also fueling yourself. And I know I used this term before, like recharging and fueling yourself for the things that are important.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So work’s always going to be there if your work is completely over like it’s taking up your entire life And you don’t have time for the things that are important That’s you know that should be kind of a wake up call to say oh something is Is not quite right and I do have and there’s a lot of people that I coach Who do love the work that they do like they’re very committed to their work and things like that And then for some people that’s perfectly fine that that’s where they spend the majority of their time And they get fueled by that and that’s fine fine.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: But if you’re feeling like work is taking away from other things that are really important, that’s where you really want to sit up and pay attention and maybe have some very frank, direct conversations with your management and your leadership to say, okay, something, you know, we need to, to talk about what’s how I can shift some things so that I have more time to focus on, on other areas of my life because there’s Just a lot.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Yeah, that’s not working. And you’ll be surprised at what, you know, ways to, um, to address that. There’s lots of creative ways that I’ve seen my leaders address that kind of situation. Um, and there’s options as long as you’re open and honest with [00:41:00] yourself first, and then you’re willing to have those, those conversations.

Erik Sunset: I can’t help but ask this and it isn’t meant to be a gotcha in any way. I guess I need to set this up a little bit. Hedge it just a little. So if you picture that normal distribution, your bell curve. You know, you’ve got most of the people in the meaty curve, the middle. I want to exclude those at the, at the far ends, the tails, the small tails, where they have.

Erik Sunset: A dire health circumstance or a dire financial circumstance. I’m not, that is not where this question is pointed. But for the rest of us, they’re sort of in that, that meaty part of the bell curve. How much burnout and its symptoms are a choice? Versus something that happens to you, whether you like it or not.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Oh, that’s an interesting question. So I might need, I might need a little bit of clarification there. So when you say, um, burnout symptoms are a choice, can you tell me a little bit more about what you mean by that?

Erik Sunset: Yeah, this is, I’m putting on my pretend psychology hat [00:42:00] here to an extent. But when you think about the locus of control, whether you make things happen, or things happen to you, or occur to you. Um, You know, there are certainly realities of burnout, you’re, you’re overworked, your hours are too long, and by the way, hopefully you’re compensated, you know, the same degree you’re putting in the amount of time to, to a work, but with what we’re saying, all these, all these strategies, and I don’t mean to put words in your mouth at all, but you can have discussions with your superiors.

Erik Sunset: You can have discussions with your direct reports. So we’re going to change a few of the things that we’re doing. So that life is a little bit different. easier. I guess I guess what I’m really trying to ask is how much burnout do you feel self inflicted to the average individual that doesn’t need to be.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Oh, that’s a great question. And so that, and I love this cause I’m starting to see there’s a theme with a lot of these, these areas that we’re talking about here, um, but it comes from awareness, right? So intentionality in this area. So if you feel like you are being stretched too thin and all that, it’s time to really [00:43:00] take a deep dive into this.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: And understand where what’s that underlying, you know, reason, like, where is it? Where is it coming from? It’s part of it based on what you can control versus I know there’s probably a lot that’s going to be, you know, outside of your control, but with the things that you can control, that’s where you really want to focus.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: And that can be that it can include conversations with your leadership and your, you know, your management and things like that. But it does need, um, It needs to start with awareness, right? You need to be aware of what you’re feeling, what you’re experiencing, the fact that you could be leading, you know, moving towards burnout to really start to address the problem.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: But it’s not just the surface level of, oh, yeah, get more sleep, you know, do better at nutrition. These things are great, and they’re great strategies, you know, to help you. But if you don’t get to the underlying cause, you know, that’s just gonna make it that much more challenging. So if you can really be honest with yourself about, okay, how much am I really?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: How much am I impacting my own burnout versus things that are outside of my control? Then you can really have those, you know, then, then you can get really clear about, okay, what’s the best way forward. And this is another reason why I really highly, highly recommend, um, you know, whoever’s listening. If you are in that [00:44:00] situation where you’re like, I just don’t even know how to.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Figure this out on my own, please go and get, you know, get the help and support from a coach or mentor, whoever it is in your life that you can lean on and have some of these conversations. Somebody that is in a position where they can help you navigate this, where they can help you figure out what is the root cause of this and what can you do to control it and also open your eyes to maybe some other options that you haven’t considered as well as help you to see, okay, is, you know, is where you’re at right now, is it worth investing more time and effort and energy, or is there some misalignment going on under the surface where maybe that’s not even the right thing?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Place for you and you need to, you know, evaluate other options. So that’s a very, I mean, that’s a, that’s a big question, but I would say get the help and support that you need to unpack that because without getting to the underlying root of that, of the burnout issue, um, it’s really hard to, you know, otherwise you’re like throwing spaghetti at the wall and trying to stick.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So a lot of what we talked about today, yes, it can be very helpful, but I would encourage, you know, your, uh, your audience to just really be honest with yourself and be really clear on what is underlying all of this so that you can get, feel like you’re getting back on track to where you need to be.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: [00:45:00] Right.

Erik Sunset: really good. And there was a little bit of a, an underlying intention there. Sure. I said that looking at some of that data around burnout and medicine, you know, pre COVID, it was all about how bad the software that providers and nurses were being forced to use. And I am certainly not here to defend.

Erik Sunset: A lot of that software because it is bad. Um, but coming from a background in electronic health records and delivering support to physicians and their, and their staffs, when you have a physician on the support phone every single day saying how much he hates using your software and it doesn’t work for them.

Erik Sunset: And I just can’t figure it out. And what’s your fault, Erik, your company isn’t doing the right thing. Then you go back and you look at the implementation, uh, reports and how the project laid out and this guy or gal didn’t spend any time learning the software that they are going to use 40 hours a week, you just kind of scratch your head and you go.

Erik Sunset: We’re here to help you, but you have to help yourself a little bit. You have to be a little bit accountable [00:46:00] to this process. And I just think, you know, with the, um, the constant, and I’m on my soap box here, if you couldn’t already tell with the constant scrolling, constant inputs into people’s brains all day, there’s no rest, everything is just more, more data, more blue light.

Erik Sunset: I’m never introspective. And I’m certainly not talking about, you know, going off to the mountains and staring at a cave wall for days at a time in the dark. That’s not what I mean. But it, uh, it seems to me and easy for me to say that with just a little additional accountability of whatever level individuals already have, and then just a little introspection, you can solve not all your problems.

Erik Sunset: And again, I’m excluding those folks in the small tails of this normal distribution that have big problems. That’s not what for the rest of us. Just a little accountability for how your own life unfolds seems like it would go a long way.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Oh, 100%. And you just brought up another really good point, and I love that you said that. You made me think about this when you talked about going off into the mountains. Now, obviously, not very realistic, right? But [00:47:00] a lot, for a lot of folks listening, I’m sure, to just remove themselves completely and go off and, you know, spend whatever it is, a sabbatical, right?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Like a month or two months. But you can find those opportunities to detach yourself from the everyday and really spend the time looking and evaluating and saying, okay, what’s going well, it’s kind of like that, um, stop, stop, continue exercise. I do this a lot with my leaders. Um, but it said that the way that works is you basically just very simply ask yourself, what do I need to continue that I’m doing?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: That obviously aligns with the things that are important to me. So going back to what we’re talking about with the values and things that are important, what do I need to, To stop doing. What do I need to start doing? And what do I need to continue doing that I know is working well, and it doesn’t have to take a ton of time, but sometimes it does take a change of scenery, a change of environment.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So, for example, you have. And again, you have to know yourself well enough to know what’s going to help you to do that for me personally, because I’ve done so much of this work over the years. Um, I know that the things that the activities that I need to lean into to help me to get to that place where I can take a, you know, a clear look at what’s going on and then be able to make some really effective [00:48:00] changes, even small tweaks along the way.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So I love the beach. I love the ocean. That’s one of the reasons I live in Florida. And so for me, even just going out to the beach and sitting there and I go into like, prayer and just kind of look through these different things and say, okay, what is it that I need? You know, where do I need to focus and what is it that I need to really pay attention to in my life?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Um, and what are some of those maybe small changes that I, that I need to make? And so something as simple as that, that can take a few hours or however long you want to do it. But sometimes just getting out of your, your current environment, giving yourself a little bit of space can help so, so much. And all it takes, sometimes it’s just a, you know, an hour or two to be able to do that.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: And a walk in nature. I mean, there’s so many different ways to do that. But completely unplugging, I think, can really be helpful in being able to do some of that introspective work.

Erik Sunset: But it’s something that not many people have time for, or I think more importantly, make

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Yes, that’s the key. Exactly. You have to make the time. You have to see the importance of this for yourself and for others. And it goes back to that, um, that whole oxygen mask analogy, right, that I’m sure a lot of people are familiar with. You’ve got to put that oxygen mask on for yourself in order to be able to help others.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: And especially in [00:49:00] this time. Most people choose to be in that healthcare space because they do want to help. They want to support other people. They want to help that healing process or, you know, whatever it is. And so in order to do that, you have to be able to be equipped yourself. And that means taking care of yourself, making sure that, you know, uh, a lot of those things are aligned so that you can be in the best position to then be able to help others.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Because if you burn out, it’s not helping anybody. It’s not helping yourself. It’s not helping anyone at work. It’s not helping your family members. It’s just, you It leads you down a road you don’t want to go down.

Erik Sunset: That’s fantastic. And so many good strategies, so many good insights. I’ll paraphrase a little bit if I can. It starts before you have a problem of how you’re going to address that problem with great culture and instilling and cultivating that. And Sharissa, one question I am asking all of my guests and have for a long time now, where are you seeing the impact or where are you seeing it going, uh, with the use of artificial intelligence for your introverted servant leaders?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Oh, that is a really good question. And I started to, to incorporate more and [00:50:00] more, um, of the, you know, the AI platforms and different things like that into my coaching. Um, so one of the things is, um, a lot of times, uh, and with the technology background, this is an area that’s so fascinating to me anyway.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Um, but specifically when it comes to to leadership and helping my leaders, um, one thing that I help them to do is to to know how to use some of the tools that we have. So I’ll take ChatGPT, because most people are very familiar with with ChatGPT, right? So even in the everyday life, so even like with something like conflict resolution, right?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Um, so as an example of this, in between our sessions, there’s always going to be, you know, stuff that comes up when you don’t have that support right there that you, that you need. Um, but one of the things that, um, that AI can be really helpful with is, uh, giving you like, uh, ideas and, and approaches and, and ways that have worked really well, um, that you can, you know, approach some of these difficult conversations, figure out, okay, what are the signs of burnout?

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: There’s just so many different ways that you could use this. Um, specifically with navigating a challenge. So a lot of times, um, you know, it just helps to get, um, to get like a lot of good information around what are some strategy strategies or tips. But of course, you need [00:51:00] to know how to use the tool. You need to know the right questions to ask because it’s only as good as the input that you that you provide.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: So one of the ways I help my my leaders. To, um, to leverage these tools in whatever areas that they might need that additional support is teaching them how to ask the right questions and how to really, um, refine what AI is giving them so that they get the, the output that is actually helpful to them. So that’s, I guess, uh, one simple way that I’m, uh, leveraging that outside of even what I’m doing for, you know, in, on the business side of things, but that’s how, that’s one way that I’m helping my clients to, to navigate, um, AI and how that can be really helpful to them.

Erik Sunset: It’s not going away. It’s been a hot topic now for the entire year and longer. We are stuck with it. And I think you make a really important point. The haves and have nots, um, are changing. The new have nots are going to be those that don’t understand how to get what they want from AI. And I think the term is prompt engineering.

Erik Sunset: Well, Sharissa,

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Yes. Exactly.

Erik Sunset: thanks for the time. Before you, before we sign off here, [00:52:00] uh, where can our listeners connect with you either on social media, your website, how can folks get in

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Oh, thanks for asking you. So there’s a couple of different ways. I am on LinkedIn. That’s probably one of the most active platforms that I’m on right now. And so if you go to LinkedIn and you just type in my name, Sharissa Sebastian or Sharissa Dippin, you’ll see my, my profile. Um, and then also my, uh, the company website is Leadership Mastery Alliance.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: On that website, you’ll find more information on the work that we do, uh, as well as a free training on how to navigate, um, or navigate leadership in times of uncertainty and rapid change, which we find ourselves in. So there’s a completely free training that you can get there. Um, and then I also have an eight week mastermind for introverted servant leaders.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Um, that I’m so excited about. It’s basically eight weeks where we come together as a group of leaders and, um, and just help in whatever areas and challenges these leaders might face. So that information is also on the website. So it’s my website and then LinkedIn are the two main, two main platforms.

Erik Sunset: That’s [00:53:00] great. And we’ll obviously, as always have links to those URLs in the show notes. And on behalf of the entire DocBuddy team, I want to thank you for listening. Sure. So thank you for joining us and be sure you’re subscribed on Apple podcasts, So you can always get the newest episodes of the show.

Erik Sunset: Thanks. We’ll talk to you soon.

Sharissa Sebastien Deppen: Thank you.